Q2. Watsonasked the Prime Minister whether she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 February.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having further meetings later today, including one with Mr. Christopher Tugendhat.
§ Mr. WatsonIn view of the developments in the coal industry in the past 24 hours, will the Prime Minister take time today to confirm that the least efficient 10 per cent. of all British pits are currently losing money at the rate of £190 million per year, and that whatever may be the outcome of talks over the next few days, the most effective way of reducing the cost, and thereby restoring the competitiveness, of British coal lies in a planned and agreed schedule of pit closures?
§ The Prime MinisterI understand that those figures are broadly correct. I stress that it is the wish of us on this side of the House, and I believe on the other, to have a competitive coal industry because that puts the least burdens on other parts of the economy and would enable very many other industries which are big users of electricity, which is based on coal, to have that electricity more cheaply, and thereby to keep more jobs in their own industries.
§ Mr. Michael FootMay I, a little more generously than the right hon. Lady's hon. Friend, congratulate the right hon. Lady on what, certainly on the present evidence, appears to be a great victory for the miners and for the nation? We shall, of course, wish to have explicit undertakings from the Minister who was so vague two days ago, but so far it looks like a very good thing. I assure the right hon. Lady that every time she turns she will get a nice bouquet from me. I might even ask her to dinner—who can tell? Are the Government thinking of including the specific undertakings given to the miners of financial support in a new coal industry Bill? When will that Bill be introduced, and what figure does she set upon the the amount that the Government will give to enable the undertakings that have been made to be carried through?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman referred to dinners. Doubtless he will not need reminding that on occasion it is a lady's prerogative to say "No".
§ Mr. AshtonNot to the miners.
§ The Prime MinisterThat was precisely why I led in with my phrase relating to dinners. [Interruption.] I am not unaware of what the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) was saying. I thought that he said "congratulations" as I came in.
§ Mr. SkinnerNot that.
§ The Prime MinisterPerhaps not. Such generosity would not become the hon. Gentleman.
The right hon. Gentleman asked about the amount of money. I must stick to what my right hon. Friend said at the meeting yesterday. Two main points were raised at that meeting. It would be quite wrong to put any gloss on them, because the matters will continue to be negotiated next 448 week. My right hon. Friend said that the Government were prepared to discuss the financial constraints with an open mind and also with a view to movement.
The chairman of the NCB said that, in the light of this, the board would withdraw its closure proposals and re-examine the position in consultation with the unions. I am not in a position to go any further. The consultations, discussions and negotiations will continue at the meeting next week, and there is nothing that I can usefully add.
§ Mr. FootI am eager to thank the right hon. Lady on every available occasion. I also thank her for turning yesterday's listening session into a talking session. That was an improvement as well. What would be worst of all would be if, after the Government had secured the apparent movement towards a settlement, there were to be any breach of faith—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question".] I am asking the same question to which I did not get an answer. What amount of money is involved? Will it be incorporated in a new coal industry Bill, because the last Coal Industry Act was part of the cause of the trouble?
§ The Prime MinisterIt is precisely because there must be no breach of faith with what took place at the meeting that I have stuck to quoting the words that were heard and were the subject of the action taken at that meeting. Precisely for the reason given by the right hon. Gentleman, it would be most unwise to go any further when those words will be the subject of negotiation at the next meeting.
§ Q3. Mr. Foxasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 February.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. FoxI know that my right hon. Friend is as concerned as any Conservative Member at the recent dismissal of Miss Joanna Harris by the Sandwell council. Is she aware that this is only the tip of the iceberg in that a number of my constituents who are placed in the same position have now received instructions from the Labour-controlled Bradford metropolitan council that only trade unionists will be transferred in their jobs or promoted? Is that not a disgraceful state of affairs which borders on blackmail? These people have every right to expect Parliament to help them.
§ The Prime MinisterI share my hon. Friend's use of the word "disgraceful" to describe the reported activities of the Bradford council, saying that only people who joined unions would be considered for promotion. That is repugnant and disgraceful. I believe that the vast majority of people in this country, as well as those in trade unions, are against the closed shop.
§ Mr. Russell KerrAsk Jim Prior.
§ The Prime MinisterI have not looked at the particular agreement of the Bradford council, but it is quite possible that it might be in breach of the Employment Act. If so, I hope that action will be taken. The Green Paper on trade union immunities makes further legislative proposals with regard to the closed shop. I hope that people who have particular examples, or strong feelings on the subject, will contact my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment.
§ Dr. OwenWhy did the Prime Minister ignore the repeated explanations during all stages of the Coal 449 Industry Act that it was, in fact, a pit closure measure? Who are the trimmers now? Is this slow motion Conservatism or the first note of the Limehouse Blues?
§ The Prime MinisterThe action was swift, decisive and realistic.
§ Q4. Mr. Langasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 19 February.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. LangWill my right hon. Friend find time today to consider the good news from Scotland in the form of 1,000 new jobs in electronics at the Timex factory in Dundee? Does she agree that it is sensible to back such new growth industries as a means of helping to create a new industrial base in Scotland?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. I think that my hon. Friend is probably referring to the new Sinclair development—
§ The Prime Minister—of the very small television sets which it is hoped to sell for about £50 each. I wish the project every success and agree that if we get the economic climate right these new growth industries will develop and provide jobs in Scotland and elsewhere in the country.
§ Mr. Barry JonesDoes the right hon. Lady feel any concern about the continuing level of steel imports, notwithstanding the depression? Is she aware that the remaining 2,000 jobs at BSC Shotton depend for the next fortnight on imported steel from Holland? What will she do about that crazy situation?
§ The Prime MinisterThe hon. Gentleman must take up such matters with the BSC. He knows that it is in charge and that only it can deal with matters of that kind. If ever a Government have to answer every detailed question about every industry we shall cease to have a democracy in this country. There will—I hope next week—be a statement on the future of the BSC's plan
§ Mr. David SteelWhile the Prime Minister is in her present constructive mood, will she turn her attention to lowering interest rates?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman must realise that if mote money is to be found—perhaps the whole House will realise it—the only place from which it can come is the people of this country. It must either come out of the taxpayers' pocket or be borrowed, and that would lead to higher interest rates. When people constantly ask for more money, I hope that they will bear that in mind.