HC Deb 15 December 1981 vol 15 cc147-8
18. Mr. Madel

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he has any plans to meet the general secretary of the Trades Union Congress to discuss greater employee involvement in decisions at the work place; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Waddington

No, Sir, but I and my right hon. Friend are willing to meet the general secretary at any time to discuss this most important subject.

Mr. Madel

With regard to a new initiative on employee participation, does my hon. and learned Friend agree that the time is now right for ACAS or the Government to publish a code of practice, since this would certainly help industrial relations?

Mr. Waddington

There is a relevant ACAS code of practice, and other bodies have also published codes of practice. I can only repeat what I said earlier. Plainly, anyone who can put forward new initiatives in this sphere will be doing a most useful job. That is how it should be done, not through legisation.

Mr. Greville Janner

Does not the Minister recognise that the only initiative with any possibility of success is one produced through legislation? Will he support the EEC fifth directive in its efforts to require member nations to take this step towards participation in industrial decision-making?

Mr. Waddington

As the hon. and learned Member knows, the fifth directive has been about for a long time, and it may well be a long time before it is eventually approved by the Council of Ministers. It has also changed a great deal over all those years. I doubt very much whether the way forward is by legislation, when the circumstances of industry are so varied that it would be dangerous to lay down a rigid pattern.

Sir Charles Fletcher-Cooke

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that the fifth directive, nevertheless, has been much improved by the work of Mr. Amédée Turner, the Member of the European Parliament who is on the Legal Committee? Does he agree that the fifth directive as it now is should be taken seriously by the Government, as it is now a far better answer to the problem than the Bullock report?

Mr. Waddington

My hon. and learned Friend is right. One of the options contained in the fifth directive is for work councils elected by the shop floor. That cuts entirely across the policies of Labour Members, who want not employee-directors but trade union directors. They do not want employee involvement. They want more trade union power.