HC Deb 01 December 1981 vol 14 cc133-6
Q1. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 1 December.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the Brazilian Foreign Minister. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty the Queen, after which I shall attend a dinner given by Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Hamilton

Has the Prime Minister had time to read the article on the front page of The Guardian this morning about the Government's proposal to scrap the National Health Service as we know it? Does she recognise that the Health Service is the most popular public service that we have? Is she aware that any threat by her to undermine the basic principles on which it is based would create a revolutionary situation in the country? Will the Prime Minister, therefore, give a categorical assurance that not even she will stoop to such skulduggery?

The Prime Minister

The principle that adequate health care should be provided for all, regardless of ability to pay, must be the foundation of any arrangments for financing the Health Service. Some time ago, on 30 July 1981, my right hon. Friend, the then Secretary of State, announced that a working party had been set up to examine different methods of financing the Health Service. [Interruption.] Only the minds of members of the Opposition are closed to new ideas. They will not even look at new ideas.

I am certain that the hon. Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton) will welcome the fact that under a Conservative Government there are 1,000 more doctors and 21,000 more fully qualified nurses and midwives in the National Health Service than there were when his party was in power.

Mr. Best

Will my right hon. Friend congratulate the leaders of the second largest trade union in Britain on having accepted yesterday a pay settlement of 5 per cent. that covers almost 2 million workers in the engineering industry? Does my right hon. Friend agree that workers who, in the national interest, settle for such moderate pay rises will have little patience with others with industrial muscle who seek to damage the nation at the expense of other people by putting in extravagant claims?

The Prime Minister

I saw the report to which my hon. Friend refers. That settlement will help to keep prices competitive and will therefore provide a better chance of expansion and more jobs in the engineering industry. I congratulate all concerned.

Mr. Foot

As the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton) is of such crucial importance, and since great suspicion is bound to be aroused by any approach by the Government to the National Health Service, may we have an assurance that there will be a debate in the House before any further proceedings on this issue are allowed?

May we have a direct answer about another report in the papers this morning, following the statement by the director of the British museum to a Select Committee?

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

The British museum is where right hon. Gentleman should be.

Mr. Foot

All right, I know that the barbarians on the Government Benches are not interested in a great institution such as the British museum, but we hear with great alarm that the director of the British museum is saying that if nothing is changed the museum will have to close in two years. If Tory Members do not care about that, we do. May we have an undertaking that the Prime Minister will intervene today to put a stop to such barbarian nonsense?

The Prime Minister

With regard to the right hon. Gentleman's first question, the setting up of the working party was announced in July. It is continuing its work and will identify alternatives for financing the Health Service. I expect that those alternatives will be looked at to see what details are required for further work. There was a debate on the National Health Service two weeks ago. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman, if not his hon. Friends, will welcome the fact that there are now 1,000 more doctors and 21,000 more nurses and midwives than there were under the Labour Government.

With regard to the museums, I gave a reception for the museum directors and members of the board yesterday evening. The grant in 1981–82 is 7 to 8 per cent. above that for 1980–81. The museums may look forward to an increase next year, but the precise amount will have to await the full public expenditure results.

Mr. Foot

Will the Prime Minister take account of what is said by the director of the British museum? Does she agree with him—because he knows the facts—that if these conditions prevail the museum will have to be closed in two years? Will she intervene to stop that right away?

The Prime Minister

I have already said that the grant for museums this year was nearly 8 per cent. above that for last year. Next year it will be above that for this year. That is reasonable under all the circumstances.

Dr. Owen

Does the Prime Minister accept Chancellor Schmidt's recent statement that the British and French nuclear weapons will have to be discussed in the present intermediate missile negotiations that have just commenced? Will the right hon. Lady use this opportunity to reconsider her position on Trident? Will she also tell the House what her view is about a battlefield nuclear weapon-free zone?

The Prime Minister

With regard to the right hon. Gentleman's first statement, alleged to have been made by Chancellor Schmidt, I do not know about it. He has never made any such statement to me. If that is what he thought, I would have expected him to make a statement to me, to President Mitterrand or to both of us together. With regard to Trident, I understand that the United States is going for D5. Until the United States has made a final decision, we cannot make a final decision. The right hon. Gentleman's third point was about a battlefield nuclear weapon-free zone. I always view with great suspicion suggestions for nuclear-free zones, particularly by a country that could easily withdraw its weapons behind the Urals and still have the capacity totally to destroy Europe.

Mr. Robert Atkins

Will my right hon. Friend find time today to address a letter of congratulation to all those at British Aerospace who have achieved the major deal with the United States Government to supply £500 million worth of Hawks, to be used by the United States Navy? Is that not an example of yet another British company being a world beater?

The Prime Minister

I give my warm congratulations. The contract has yet to be precisely defined, but the Hawk is an excellent aircraft. It is wonderful to see other countries recognising that fact and viewing the possibility of placing orders with Britain.

Q2. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 1 December.

The Prime Minister

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some time ago.

Mr. Allaun

Will the Prime Minister think again about tomorrow's announcement? Is it not hypocrisy to profess concern for the poorest in society and at the same time deliberately to inflict a third and savage increase in council rents, a further increase in prescription charges, an increase in the national insurance contribution and lastly a cut in the dole?

The Prime Minister

As there is to be an announcement by my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer tomorrow, it is possible that I shall be doing more thinking about it today. Without confirming or denying any of the points made by the hon. Gentleman, I hope that he will subscribe to the principle that those in work should make it their duty to look after those who are out of work.

Mr. Kenneth Carlisle

Will my right hon. Friend today consider the new training initiative? Does she agree that it constitutes the most determined effort ever by any Government to tackle the grave problem of youth unemployment? Will she ensure that any schemes arising from the initiative have a high vocational content so that the young people will have a practical hope of an effective job to go to?

The Prime Minister

I hope that the House will warmly welcome details of the new training initiative when they are announced at about the turn of the year. They are designed to give more young people more training so that they have a better prospect of getting new jobs. Taking that together with the youth opportunities programme and the prospect of the scheme for young workers, which comes in on 2 January, I believe that there is a good deal of hope for young people leaving school that they will be able to get training, further education or jobs.

Mr. David Steel

Did the Prime Minister notice that last Thursday the people of Crosby passed judgment on her Government, and as the new Member for Crosby will take her seat this afternoon, is it not the Prime Minister's turn today to feel jolly jealous?

The Prime Minister

Hardly. I do not believe that there is anyone in the House to be jealous of.

Mr. Bill Walker

Will my right hon. Friend consult her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland now that the decision has been given about the go-ahead for the NATO base in the Western Isles to ensure that that base, which is essential to the protection of the United Kingdom, and which will create many jobs in that area, is no longer held up?

The Prime Minister

I shall do my best to comply with my hon. Friend's request. He is as anxious for the whole of the United Kingdom to be protected as I am, and that sufficient jobs go to Scotland.