HC Deb 29 April 1981 vol 3 cc773-4
6. Mr. Parris

asked the Secretary of State for Transport what evidence is available that high subsidies for bus services attract people from cars to buses.

Mr. Fowler

All the available evidence is that high subsidies have little or no effect other than encouraging some extra trips by existing passengers. Reducing the fares by 10 per cent. achieves only some 2 per cent. to 3 per cent. extra travel.

Mr. Parris

Will my right hon. Friend agree that, although subsidies may be justified as a lifeline to threatened services, using subsidies to try to enforce travelling habits on the public is both extremely expensive and ultimately futile?

Mr. Fowler

There is much in what my hon. Friend says. South Yorkshire has taken this policy further than any other authority. If we applied the policy adopted by South Yorkshire to the other metropolitan counties and to the Greater London Council, the cost would be over £500 million a year. I hope that, in the coming elections, the public will understand that.

Mr. Prescott

Does the Secretary of State accept that if 2 per cent. of the car-driving population caught the bus, 180,000 fewer cars would be on the road, representing a saving of about £45 million? Is he aware that research in South Yorkshire shows that, with a high subsidy and low fares, 34 per cent. of people travel to work by bus, which is twice the national average and gives a good electoral bonus for the coming elections, as we shall find out next week?

Hon. Members

"Hear, hear."'

Mr. Fowler

It is interesting to hear the reaction of hon. Members opposite. The figures for South Yorkshire show that, at enormous cost and expense to the ratepayers both domestic and industrial, there has been only a 6 per cent. increase in passengers. If the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) now supports the policy adopted in South Yorkshire, why did the Labour Government oppose it throughout their term of office? Not only the right hon. Member for Stockton (Mr. Rodgers) but every Labour Minister of Transport opposed South Yorkshire to the death.

Mr. Stephen Ross

Does the Secretary of State accept that the vast majority of retired people want to see the introduction of a fairer concessionary fare scheme throughout the country? What will he do to help local authorities over that hurdle?

Mr. Fowler

Local and central government are spending about £145 million a year on concessionary fares. It is reasonable that that should be a matter for local choice. That is where the decision should be taken.