§ 5. Mr. Hendersonasked the Secretary of State for Employment when he last met the chairman of the Manpower Services Commission to discuss apprenticeships.
§ Mr. PriorI shall shortly be meeting the chairman and members of the Manpower Services Commission at their request to discuss apprentice training.
§ Mr. HendersonDoes my right hon. Friend agree that there is wide agreement that changes are needed in the industrial apprenticeship arrangements and that timeserving is no longer an appropriate qualification in a modern industrial society? Will the Government give a positive lead in changing apprenticeship arrangements, bearing in mind the fact that many skilled craftsmen do not want their heads to be stuffed with irrelevant book-learning?
§ Mr. PriorI agree. It is not so much a matter of the Government giving a lead as of ensuring that employers and unions are prepared to co-operate in the changes which are recognised generally to be overdue.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursWill the Secretary of State also discuss traineeships, as promoted by the West Cumberland Training Association, which are a variation on apprenticeships? Will he arrange for a statement to be made?
§ Mr. PriorI am waiting for the Manpower Services Commission to consider proposals which it has been examining in the last two or three months. Traineeships are one subject of its examination. It has also been examining apprenticeships and retraining for adults. I hope that the three aspects will come together shortly.
§ Mr. John TownendDoes my right hon. Friend agree that one of the causes of the reduction in the number of apprenticeships is the high starting rate for apprenticeships? Is he aware that apprentices are paid 50 per cent. of a skilled man's wage, going up to 90 per cent.? Will he discuss that problem when he meets the Manpower Services Commission?
§ Mr. PriorThe problem is important. It is in marked contrast to what is happening in Germany where there are many more apprenticeships. Apprentices are regarded there as being low-paid mainly because of their value later.
§ Mr. Barry JonesIs not the Employment and Training Bill certain to blight prospects for apprenticeships throughout the decade? Why do the Government not have the courage to drop this miserable measure?
§ Mr. PriorOn the contrary, I believe that ensuring that the money available for training is put to proper 637 use—which will be the result of the Employment and Training Bill—will immeasurably strengthen our training programme.