HC Deb 30 October 1980 vol 991 cc679-81
5. Mr. Skinner

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what further meetings he has had with his EEC counterparts regarding fishing methods; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

On 29 September the EEC Council of Fisheries Ministers agreed a comprehensive regime for the conservation of fish resources.

Mr. Skinner

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that the deal between Britain and Denmark on the North Sea pout box was described by Scottish fishermen as totally irresponsible and wrecking? Is not the truth that the Ministry of Agriculture is so jealous of all the other Government Departments, which are smashing industry to the ground on the home front, that it is ensuring that large numbers of fishing fleets are being pushed into dry dock all round the country?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should discuss the matter not only with the Scottish fishing industry, but with other fishermen. He will discover that the pout box deal made in the Council of Ministers has been generally welcomed by the British fishing industry.

Mr. Myles

Will my hon. Friend ensure that when there are changes in mesh sizes for conservation purposes there is an adequate supply of the nets available and that changes are not made so often that fishermen have to buy new nets every other week?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

I am aware of the expense that can be faced by fishermen when there are changes in mesh sizes. I accept the point about the availability of nets. The increases in mesh sizes that have been agreed will take effect from 1 December, and were first proposed about 18 months ago. The fishing industry has therefore had a considerable period of warning that this increase in mesh sizes was likely to take place.

Mr. James Johnson

Despite what the Minister said, somewhat unkindly, to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), is he aware that there is considerable scepticism and dubiety among Hull skippers about the methods used by the Danes? I am talking not about the pout box, but about the North Sea. Similar sentiments have been expressed in Lowestoft over past years. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that according to what we are told, a senior Minister has done a deal at the last EEC talks, under which invigilation of fishing methods is to be carried out by a so-called EEC fleet? Many people in Hull and elsewhere believe that invigilation and enforcement should be the responsibility of our own national fleet, rather than that of others coming into our waters.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

While I might expect the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) to get his facts wrong in relation to the pout box, I should not expect the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, West (Mr. Johnson) to get his facts wrong. I point out to him that if we had not made the agreement at the end of September there would have been no pout box to the east of the Greenwich meridian. What we have negotiated means that 80 to 90 per cent. of the white fish stocks in that area can be protected. To that extent, the British fishing industry has welcomed the proposal.

Mr. Gummer

Will my hon. Friend assure those hon. Members who have constituencies nearer the sea than Bolsover that the only way in which we can have sensible conservation measures is by co-operation with the rest of the EEC?

This is one area in which the Community does a good job.

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

If my hon. Friend continues in this manner, he too will reach the sea fairly shortly. He is right. The best way to ensure effective conservation is to get international agreement and have it effectively enforced, as the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, West, implied. That is what we are seeking to do in the Common Market negotiations.

Mr. Mason

Is the Minister not aware that what seriously concerns the British Fishing Federation is the size of the mesh used in the nets, especially by the Danes, who depend upon industrial fishing? The federation is worried that these fine nets will sweep the seas, and that British fishermen, using a larger mesh size, will lose the chance of taking the table white fish that we require. Will the Minister allay those fears?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

I point out three things to the right hon. Gentleman: first, we have conserved a massive area of the North Sea where the Danes will not be permitted to fish, not just for six months of the year, as was the case previously, but for 12 months when the white fish by-catch can be only 10 per cent., much lower than previously. Secondly, fishermen are also entitled to fish for shrimps and other fish with nets below that size.

Mr. Skinner

What about whiting?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Thirdly, in the control measures agreed this week we have agreed one specific measure which is that where two nets are carried one has to be stowed in a particular way, which makes policing of industrial fishing much more effective.

Mr. Skinner

What about the red herring?

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