Law and Order (Hansard, 27 November 1980)

§ 2. Mr. Molyneaux
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will report progress on the enforcement of law and order in Northern Ireland.

§ 4. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about the activities of the security forces.

§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Humphrey Atkins)
The overall level of terrorist violence in Northern Ireland has continued to decline. The general improvement is due in large measure to the continuing efforts of the security forces. The role and capabilities of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, with continuing military support where necessary, are being steadily expanded. 554 Since I last answered questions in the House on 7 August, 194 people have been charged with crimes associated with terrorism. This includes 19 charged with murder and 12 with attempted murder. In addition, 63 weapons and 14,848 rounds of ammunition have been recovered.
Co-operation between the security forces in Northern Ireland and those of the Republic of Ireland continues to be very satisfactory. There has been a number of notable arrests and discoveries of arms and munitions in the Republic.
Nevertheless, terrorist activity continues and there has been some increase in the number of sectarian attacks. Since 7 August, 21 people have died, including six members of the security forces. It appears that three of the civilian victims may not have been the intended targets of the terrorists. This shows, once again, the total lack of concern for human life by the terrorists. The police are investigating all these crimes and five people have already been charged in connection with these murders.

§ Mr. Molyneaux
Does the Secretary of State agree that the enforcement of law and order is made much more difficult by the activities of those who are engaged in giving credibility to the claims, boasts and threats of various criminal organisations?

§ Mr. Atkins
The claims and boasts of the prohibited organisations ring hollow. The people of Northern Ireland are equipped as well as, if not better than, most people to withstand the threats that are made against them.

§ Mr. McNair-Wilson
I welcome the further decline in the level of terrorism and the continuing ascendancy of the police as guardians against criminal activities and terrorism. May we have an assurance that there will be no precipitate rundown of Army strength in the Province as suggested in a recent story in The Daily Telegraph, particularly in view of the current tension and the prison officers' strike?

§ Mr. Atkins
I can give the House that assurance. The level of military strength in the Province is kept continuously before me, the GOC and the Chief Constable. The Government's policy is to retain in Northern Ireland only that level of military support for the RUC which is necessary. We do not want more than is necessary. Equally, we shall be sure not to have less.

§ Mr. Fitt
In the enforcement of law and order, will the Secretary of State bear in mind that running parallel with the bloody campaign of the IRA is an equally dangerous campaign being waged by the UDA and Loyalist paramilitary forces in which innocent Catholics have been killed and more have been wounded in recent weeks? May I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the television programme "World in Action" on Monday evening in which a so-called leader of the Ulster Defence Association threatened the Catholic population in Northern Ireland? Is he aware that that broadcast caused a great deal of fear? Will the he ensure that the law and the enforcement of law are seen to be even-handed against all potential murderers, no matter who they claim to represent?

§ Mr. Atkins
I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. Terrorist activity, whatever its motive, is to be deplored. It is the business of the RUC to act against terrorists whoever they are. It is seeking to carry that duty out and, as the days go by, successfully carrying it out.

§ Mr. Kilfedder
Does the Secretary of State recall the representations that I made urging that a campaign medal be awarded to the police? Is he now in a position to make a statement, bearing in mind that the RUC and the RUC Reserve, who have suffered grievous casualties, deserve recognition for their courage, impartiality, skill and patience?

§ Mr. Atkins
I entirely agree with the hon Gentleman's comments about the RUC. He and other hon. Members have represented to me that there should be a campaign medal. It is a matter that I am pursuing, but I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

§ Mr. McCusker
If the situation and co-operation are as good as the Secretary of State implies, how is it that two nights ago six armed thugs crossed from the Republic to Northern Ireland, held a family at gunpoint, commandeered a car, drove 12 miles, set up an ambush, killed a member of the Ulster Defence Regiment, drove back 12 miles and escaped undetected into the Irish Republic?

§ Mr. Atkins
What I said in my original answer, and what I stick by, is that the situation is steadily improving. I did not claim that it was as good as it should be. It is not. The hon. Gentleman and the House know that very well. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's statement, if he has evidence to support what he said, I beg him to give it to the RUC so that charges can be made.

§ Mr. Peter Robinson
Is the Secretary of State aware of the utter revulsion and outrage in the Northern Ireland community at the recent killings? Will be assure the House that, now that his policy is seen to have failed, he will review it urgently?

§ Mr. Atkins
The hon. Gentlemen claims that the policy has failed. I do not know by what standards he measures success or failure. I repeat that steadily the security forces, led by the RUC, are getting on top of the terrorist activity. Terrorist activity still continues, but the result of the security forces' work shows that they are having more success. I therefore believe that the hon. Gentleman's claim that the policy is not succeeding is quite unfounded.

§ Mr. McCusker
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature—

§ Mr. Speaker
If the hon. Gentleman puts his point of order, he will merely stop me from calling the Front Bench spokesman.

§ Mr. John
Has there not been disappointment in the enforcement of law and order over the dismissal of the prosecutions brought in the Republic under the cross-border jurisdiction Acts? Has the right hon. Gentleman undertaken to study the matter? Will he, for example, discuss it with the Government of the Republic with a view to setting up a joint law commission to examine how that jurisdiction can be strengthened in order to bring satisfactory convictions where proper?

§ Mr. Atkins
It is not for me to comment on the decisions of courts, whether they be British or Irish. I take encouragement from the fact that the authorities in the Republic have used the provisions of the cross-border legislation to bring those charges. Of course, we are disappointed that the charges were dismissed, but I hope 556 that the fact that the authorities have used legislation is an indication that they will use it again. Indeed, we are discussing with them how we can best proceed.

§ Mr. McCusker
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply that I received to my supplementary question, I give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter at an early opportunity on the Adjournment.