Metropolitan Police

HC Deb 13 November 1980 vol 992 cc600-2

7. Mr. Cyril D. Townsend

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects the Metropolitan Police to reach their full establishment; and if he will now review that establishment.

Mr. Brittan

The force strength was 23,349 at the end of September, a gain of 621 so far this year and leaving 3,428 vacancies on the present establishment. It is likely to be some years before that establishment is reached. With regard to the size of the establishment itself, the position is that the Commissioner is now reviewing the force's manpower needs.

Mr. Townsend

I welcome that reply because the gain has led to an increase in the number of bobbies on the beat in the streets of my constituency. Is it not absurd that the Metropolitan Police are presently working on an establishment that was designed for Greater London 15 years ago?

Mr. Brittan

There is not a practical problem unless and until the Metropolitan Police reach their establishment level. There is not much point in our doing anything other than assisting and encouraging them to continue their successful recruitment policy within the present establishment.

Mr. George Cunningham

In any discussions that take place between the Commissioner and the Home Office about the proper establishment, will the Home Office take into account the fact that the ability of the Metropolitan Police to respond to increasing requests from people on housing estates and the like for more intensive policing is limited by the all-London and, indeed, national responsibilities of the Metropolitan Police, with the result that police are called away from the divisions and the community work that they could otherwise be doing? Will the Minister confirm that that point will be fully taken into account in any discussions?

Mr. Brittan

There is no doubt that any consideration of the matter by my right hon. Friend must take account of the fact that the Metropolitan Police have responsibilities over and above the responsibilities of other forces, as the hon. Gentleman suggested.

Mr. Eggar

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware of the worrying increase in vandalism and senseless crime in the areas of outer London? Will he assure my constituents that the Metropolitan Police, in allocating newly trained policemen, are not giving preference to inner London at the expense of outer London?

Mr. Brittan

Allocation policies are very much a matter for the Commissioner. I know that he is concerned to provide a proper service for outer London as well as for inner London.

Mr. Dobson

Will the Minister say what was the population of London when the establishment was agreed? Will he say also what was then the ratio between the population and the establishment, and what it is today?

Mr. Brittan

I cannot answer that question without notice.

Mr. Forman

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that many of my constituents are gratitfied with the progress that has been made towards the establishment levels in the Metropolitan Police? Is he further aware that they are also deeply concerned about the drainage of scarce police manpower for demonstrations and other events in central London? Can he hold out any hope that those events can be policed more economically, so that more police are available for community policing in outer London?

Mr. Brittan

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments. It is a cause for congratulation that the Metropolitan Police strength is increasing at its present rate. On my hon. Friend's second point, the Government are reviewing the law on public order. In that review we are taking into account the fact that the demonstrations referred to by my hon. Friend undoubtedly lead to expense and a drain of police manpower away from other tasks.