HC Deb 12 November 1980 vol 992 cc461-3
8. Mr. Cyril D. Townsend

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has for giving the Ordnance Survey a more enterprising and independent status.

Mr. Heseltine

I am studying various possibilities but have no firm proposals at this stage.

Mr. Townsend

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Ordnance Survey has an historic and successful record, is a great British institution and that, like the Government Front Bench, it may from time to time need enlightenment and reform, but basically it needs conserving?

Mr. Heseltine

There can be no question but that I should agree with my hon. Friend that the Ordnance Survey has fulfilled a valuable role in our history and has a crucial role in future.

Mr. Donald Stewart

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the talk in some quarters of giving the Ordnance Survey a more enterprising and independent status is simply a euphemism for allowing looters to take the more profitable parts of the organisation? Is he aware that the whole of the Ordnance Survey is necessary for the public interest and will he refute any suggestion that it might be carved up?

Mr. Heseltine

The right hon. Gentleman would expect me to look at all the options before rejecting them. That is what I am doing. I am having wide consultations on the various alternatives that might be before me. I am particularly looking at the Serpell report on this matter which was commissioned by the previous Government.

Mr. Forman

As a keen walker, may I ask my right hon. Friend to give the maximum assurance to the House that nothing will be done to the excellent Ordnance Survey which would detract from the high quality of its work which is unparalleled throughout the world?

Mr. Heseltine

My right hon. Friend has my absolute assurance that I recognise the standard and quality that has been associated with the Ordnance Survey and I shall do nothing to undermine that.

Mr. R. C. Mitchell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have had dozens of letters from Ordnance Survey employees who live in my constituency expressing their desire to remain within the public service and their grave concern at the possible threat to the service that they give to the public if alternative arrangements are made? Will the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that before he makes any decision he will have full consultation with the trade unions and staff associations involved?

Mr. Heseltine

Yes.

Mr. Adley

May I also declare an interest as a customer of the Ordnance Survey and say that I share the view expressed by the hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. Mitchell)? I too have many constituents who work for the Ordnance Survey. The word "unique" is one of the most overworked words in the English language, but the Ordnance Survey is a unique organisation. Will my right lion. Friend bear that in mind in any proposal that he makes for its future?

Mr. Heseltine

My hon. Friend will have heard me refer to the high quality of work with which the Ordnance Survey has been associated.

Mr. Denis Howell

Is the Secretary of State aware that the Opposition believe that the standards of excellence of the Ordnance Survey must be maintained at all costs but cannot be maintained if the surveying side is to be divorced from the profitable publications? Is he aware that we need to maintain the service for the Royal Navy's hydrographic survey and maintain the principle of universal coverage which the Ordnance Survey continues? Is he further aware that we shall resist any attempts to divide the organisation between the non-profitable surveying sector and the profitable publishing sector?

Mr. Heseltine

I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman can have looked carefully at the underlying figures of the Ordnance Survey. If he had, he would not find it so easy to talk about significant areas of profit. I can assure him that they are not to be found. Let me make clear that I will do nothing that is not preceded by full consultation. I will certainly continue to hold discussions. I have reached no conclusions, but I believe it is right that all such organisations should be subjected to political scrutiny and that a wide-ranging debate about their activities should continue.