HC Deb 30 June 1980 vol 987 cc1071-3
8. Mr. Coleman

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what estimates are available to his Department of public sector and housing association housing starts in Wales for the three years 1980–81, 1981–82 and 1982–83.

The Under-Secretary for Wales (Mr. Wyn Roberts)

As I said in reply to the hon. Member for Cardigan (Mr. Howells) on 25 June, I cannot make firm estimates, because within the single block housing investment allocation it will be for individual local authorities in Wales to decide what resources to use for new house building in 1980. As for future years, we must await their submissions of housing investment programmes later this year.

The number of housing association starts similarly will depend on the present and future plans of the associations.

Mr. Coleman

But is the Minister aware that in my constituency—

Mr. Bill Walker

Reading.

Mr. Coleman

I can read. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman cannot. I shall start again. The hon. Gentleman is simply wasting Welsh Question Time.

Is the Minister aware that in my constituency there have been no housing association starts this year? Any building going on was started two years ago. Is the hon. Gentleman aware also that local authorities have no money to start building houses, to give loans, or to give grants, except for those which are mandatory? Is the experience of Neath typical of Wales? What are the prospects for people waiting to be housed in Wales in the next one year, two years or three years? Can the hon. Gentleman say?

Mr. Wyn Roberts

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the housing authority in his constituency has this year had 80 per cent. of last year's grant, which is what it was promised by the previous Government in November 1978. It is one of 33 authorities which this year have had 80 per cent. of last year's grant. There are 14 other authorities in Wales that have had more than 80 per cent. of last year's grant. It is not simply new house building with which local authorities and housing associations are concerned. They are concerned also with rehabilitation, improvement for sale and the extension of home ownership.

Mr. Garel-Jones

My hon. Friend cannot give us firm estimates about the future, but can he give us some facts about the number of starts made from, say, 1974 to 1979 under the previous Government?

Mr. Wyn Roberts

I can tell my hon. Friend something about the record of the previous Government. Between 1974–75 and 1979–80 they cut the housing moneys in Wales by no less than one-third.

Mr. Alec Jones

The hon. Gentleman is very keen on mentioning the previous Government's commitment. Is it not true that the previous Government told local housing authorities in Wales that they could continue with their full programme and that the Government would finance them? Secondly, is it not true also that housing expenditure in Wales has been cut from £217 million in 1978–79, when only 5,500 houses were built, to £110 million in 1983–84? It is less than true to say that the hon. Gentleman cannot give some indication. A cut of that size must mean far fewer houses being built in Wales and longer waiting lists, and our homeless people waiting even longer.

Mr. Wyn Roberts

The right hon. Gentleman referred to the White Paper projections of expenditure up to 1983–84. I reiterate that between 1974–75 and 1979–80 his Government reduced housing expenditure in Wales from £303 million to £203 million. We are only continuing a course that was started by the previous Government.

Mr. Jones

Will the hon. Gentleman now answer the first part of my question? Is it not true that the last circular issued by the Labour Government committed the Government to financing the full housing programme of housing authorities in Wales?

Mr. Wyn Roberts

What the right hon. Gentleman's Government promised in the letter of November 1978 to the local authorities was that they would this year reeive 80 per cent. of the moneys granted last year.

Mr. Jones

And the rest. Go on.

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. Roberts

There was also, admittedly, a tolerance factor. We have not allowed that tolerance factor, because we want the local authorities to adhere firmly to their cash limits.