GOVERNMENT INVESTMENT IN SHARES AND SECURITIES OF THE SUCCESSOR COMPANY

HC Deb 30 June 1980 vol 987 cc1189-203

Mr. Tebbit

I beg to move amendment No. 11, in page 5, line 29, after 'into', insert: 'or carry rights to subscribe for'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Richard Crawshaw)

With this we may take Government amendments Nos. 12 to 19 inclusive.

Mr. Tebbit

Once again, I have to say that these amendments are technical and drafting and do not represent any change in policy.

The purpose of clause 5 is to give the Secretary of State the power, if he chooses to exercise it, to acquire ordinary voting shares in the successor company. In the Bill as originally drafted the Secretary of State's powers were limited to acquiring further shares only in the form of rights issues, that is, new shares which may be offered by the company to existing shareholders. However, during the Committee stage the Government tabled an amendment providing powers for the Secretary of State to acquire further ordinary voting shares other than in the context of rights issues, for example by purchase on the open market. Clause 5(1), as at present drafted, allows the Secretary of State to acquire ordinary voting shares or securities convertible into ordinary voting shares subject only to a maximum target investment limit defined by clause 6.

However, after looking more closely at this subsection, we find that it requires some expansion. Although it already covers ordinary voting shares and securities convertible into ordinary voting shares, it does not cover rights to subscribe for ordinary voting shares or securities which carry rights to subscribe for such shares. Both of these are types of investment which the successor company might choose to offer and it is consistent with the Government's policy to enable the Secretary of State to subscribe, should he see fit. This is achieved by amendments Nos. 11 and 12. Amendment No. 13 is consequential on the first two.

The definition of "ordinary voting shares" in clause 5(2) was rather too narrowly drawn. Amendment No. 14 modifies this definition so that it does not impose an unduly onerous restriction on the ability of the Secretary of State to acquire or subscribe for new shares.

Unless hon. Members press me, I shall not go into the close detail of this, but to some extent it will make it easier for the Secretary of State to acquire a wider range of securities provided only that they also come with the right to convert to, or acquire in some way, voting right shares.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments made: No 12, in page 5, line 29 at end add— '(bb) acquire rights to subscribe for any such shares; or'.

No. 13, in page 5, line 32, leave out from '(a)'to 'so' in line 33 and insert— '(b) or (bb) above in relation to such shares, securities or rights'.

No. 14, in page 5, line 39 at end insert— '(but the right to participate in distributions need not extend to a dividend declared out of profits earned during any period falling wholly or partly before the date of acquisition of the shares).'.

No. 15, in page 5, line 41 after 'securities', insert or 'rights'.

No. 16, in page 6, line 1 leave out 'or securities' and insert 'securities or rights'.

No. 17, in page 6, line 4 leave out 'or securities' and insert 'securities or rights'.

No. 18, in page 6, line 6 leave out 'or securities' and insert 'securities or rights'.

No. 19, in page 6, line 7 leave out 'or securities' and insert 'securities or rights'.—[Mr. Tebbit.]

Mr. Soley

I beg to move amendment No. 20, in page 6, line 9 at end insert— '(6) The Secretary of State may not dispose of any shares or securities acquired by virtue of this Act to any other airline company in such a way that any individual shareholding exceeds 5 per cent. of the total of the ordinary shares and the total of all shareholding by other airlines shall be restricted to 20 per cent. of the ordinary shares.' The effect of this amendment is to limit the involvement of other airlines in British Airways to 5 per cent. of the total ordinary shares in the case of any one airline or a maximum of 20 per cent. of ordinary shares for any group of airlines.

The aim behind the amendment is important. I do not think that there is any difference between the two sides of the House in wanting to make a success of British Airways, be it in the present form or in the new form that the Government want. The difference is that on the Opposition side of the House we claim that the Government are careless about the way in which they have put British Airways into competition with other airlines. There is a feeling that somehow or other British Airways will be able to stand on its own two feet without certain basic protections which are available to other airlines.

I cannot help but put this in the context of the Government's general economic philosophy when they argue that by taking away State aid, support or protection, they will enable British companies to compete equally abroad. There is no evidence to support that. We have had a recent example of unfair competition in the steel industry. In my constituency the director of a company came to see me. He told me that he had voted for the Prime Minister and the Government's policies, which he understood meant fair competition. He now felt that he was up against unfair competition from overseas.

Most national airlines have considerable Government involvement in their shareholding and directorship. In Committee, and earlier, the Minister made much of the different situation in the United States. In the United States the Federal Aviation Act prevents other airlines from investing in American-registered airlines without the permission of the CAB. In addition, the CAB makes it abundantly clear that it will not permit foreign investment in an American airline.

The Minister may say that there is no danger of foreign investment, because the articles of association limit the right of foreign investors. However, they are affected by the EEC. The definition of "foreigner" is: an individual who is neither a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies, nor a national of another member State of the European Economic Community who, by virtue of Section 2(1) of the European Communities Act 1972, is entitled for the purposes of participation in the capital of the Company to be treated no less favourably than a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies". There is, therefore, the possibility of other airlines being able to buy into British Airways either from bases in Europe or the colonies, which effectively means Hong Kong, as our colonies are few and far between, and not many have the facilities to establish a national airline. The amendment is designed to protect British Airways. It will do no more than put it on an equal footing with the European airlines or the North American airlines with which it will be competing and which are protected by similar legislation. The Minister has never given sufficient assurance that British Airways will be able to compete on an equal basis with foreign airlines.

The Minister often accuses me of being full of doom and gloom, but I am full of doom and gloom only when he gives me cause. I should not feel that way if he occasionally gave me some encouragement that we were in agreement. There is cause for concern over the future of British Airways. We should ensure that they get off to a good start in their new form. I should prefer that they are not interfered with in the way that the Government propose, but that is their policy. However, there is no excuse for not providing British Airways with adequate protection in their competition with overseas airlines.

I do not want to continue our exchange of examples and hypothetical conditions, but if that protection is not afforded another airline from the EEC or our colonies could buy in to British Airways with the object of scoring competitive advantage. That could come about by an interest in the route structure or a particular route or because one airline is doing especially well and another not so well. Another airline may be interested in acquiring the profitable helicopter or hotel side of the business. British Airways, undergoing a capital reinvestment programme in a difficult economic climate, could be forced to sell off its highly profitable hotel chain to another European airline to obtain essential capital. By buying in as allowed by the Bill, that airline could bring about such a condition much more easily.

The amendment would offer protection to British Airways. It is eminently reasonable and such a provision is apparent in other national legislation. If the Minister persists in refusing to accept our proproposal, the onus will be on him to explain why other countries provide protection and to demonstrate that British Airways will be able to compete on equal terms and will not be placed at a disadvantage compared with other national airlines.

Mr. McCrindle

I join the hon. Member for Hammersmith, North (Mr. Soley) in wishing British Airways success in its new form. Unlike him, I am anxious to move towards a situation in which there is a minority involvement by public subscription in British Airways Limited.

I am sorry that my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Mr. McNair-Wilson) is not in the Chamber. I forbore to intervene in his speech, but I do not believe that we should get British Airways Limited off to the best start if we seriously contemplated separating it again into BEA and BOAC, as my hon. Friend described.

For good or ill, British Airways became an entity in 1974 and it is possible to trace considerable progress since then. In its most recent report, British Airways reveals an optimism in estimates of traffic which has not been fulfilled and shows a lack of management capability in that it seriously underestimated the increase in the price of aviation fuel which contributed so much to the reduction of profits.

However, it would not be wise to conclude that the creation of two airlines, with all the problems faced by British Airways, in place of the one that we have at present, would necessarily be a move in a more profitable direction. I do not subscribe to the ideas of my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury. I also do not accept my hon. Friend's claim that the management of British Airways is lacking in commercial judgment. My experience of the management is that it is well aware of the commercial factors surrounding the atmosphere in which the airline operates. I wished to place those matters on record before turning to the amendment.

I support the Government's policy of selling part of British Airways and I believe that we should place as few obstructions as possible in the way of a successful sale. Still fewer should be prescribed by statute and I am, therefore, not anxious to see the amendment added to the Bill. I have been tempted from time to time to support additions to the Bill, but I have been constant in my belief that we should accept the objective set by the Government and do all that we can to achieve that objective.

9 pm

If we are to resist the amendment—and I presume that the Minister will think that he should—the Government need to make their position clear on three points. First, my hon. Friend's reply should be that the Government see British Airways, in private or public ownership, continuing to be our principal flag-carrying airline. I was in the House when we had a short debate on what "flag-carrying airline" meant in the new situation. My hon. Friend will understand when I say that, no matter what the Government's relationship is with British Airways in the future, there is a need to emphasise that while it remains at its present size, while it bestraddles the world with a mass of routes, British Airways must continue to be seen by this Government, and any future Government, as our principal flag-carrying airline.

Secondly, for reasons of prestige—the Government's prestige and the country's prestige—and because we must take note of the possibility of a national emergency requiring the Government of the day to requisition a part or all of the fleet of British Airways, which is provided for in a later clause, the Government should exercise the powers of their shareholding to prevent ownership from passing into foreign control.

Thirdly, the House expects my hon. Friend to say that the Government will not willingly see more than a comparatively small shareholding taken up by competitor airlines. However, there is a positive case for encouraging an injection of other airline expertise into British Airways. Where this has happened elsewhere in the world it has seldom been to the detriment of the airline, provided that the percentage of such a shareholding is minimal.

I go further. Apart from there being a case for a minority shareholding by a competitor airline, there is a powerful case for a shareholding being taken up by, for example, travel agencies or groups of travel agencies. After all, if the future management is anxious to know what the customer thinks about British Airways services, there are few in a better position to tell it than the representatives of the travel agencies.

Therefore, I hope that we shall in no way discourage the movement towards a minority shareholding by a competitor airline, and even an involvement by a group of travel agencies. There are good reasons for a minority shareholding. If any hon. Member is in doubt, I remind him that there is already a minority holding by British Airways in competitor airlines, and an airline that is about to become a competitor, in the shape of Cathay Pacific.

Mr. Soley

I take it that the hon. Gentleman does not disagree that my amendment allows minority participation. Indeed, it would allow travel agents to be involved, if that were the wish. It is not against that.

Mr. McCrindle

I accept that. What I am saying is that, whilst I understand the hon. Gentleman's sentiments and. I suppose, could be said to be endorsing some of them, I do not accept that it is necessary to truss up the future British Airways Limited with unnecessary amendments. I hope that the hon. Gentleman's ideas and those that I have just added, such as the minority shareholding by a group of travel agencies, will be accepted by my hon. Friend in general principle. Equally, the Government are entitled to say that it is not necessary to go to the extent of tying up every last area of possible shareholding involvement by accepting the amendment.

I hope that the hon. Gentleman appreciates that I am going considerably along the way to accepting his sentiments. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary would be right in broadly accepting the sentiments that both the hon. Gentleman and I have expressed but in resisting the need to add an amendment such as this.

Mr. Tebbit

As hon. Members have said, we have already debated a similar amendment in Committee. I repeat that, as a matter of broad principle, the Government see no reason why other airlines should not be allowed to invest in British Airways if they wish. That is the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. McCrindle) makes. As my hon. Friend said, it is not unusual for major international airlines to have a proportion of shareholders from other airlines. British Airways has trade investments in other airways including Cyprus Airways. Air Mauritius and most notably, perhaps, some 15 per cent. of Cathay Pacific Airways.

It would be a most unusual private sector company that had a statutory restriction on the holding of its shares by other companies. Looking at the terms of the amendment and bearing in mind the size of British Airways, I do not think that it can be held that other airlines would come in to buy the equity of British Airways Limited in order to damage it. If it was a foreign investment from outside the European Community, it could easily be prohibited by the provisions in the articles of the company and our law. I do not believe that there is lurking somewhere within the Community an airline such as Alitalia or Air France determined to buy into British Airways to damage it. Indeed, if that was overdone and British Airways ceased to be an airline under clear British control, one would run into the problem that British Airways would lose its route rights under sections 22 and 23 of the Civil Aviation Act 1971.

As I said in Committee, I am not sure how this fear of the damage that would be done by modest shareholdings by other airlines and, indeed, foreigners, in our airline arises. If it had been good for Cathay Pacific to have 15 per cent. of its shares held by British Airways, would it be bad for British Airways if it had 5, 10 or 15 per cent. of its shares held by Cathay Pacific? It would be difficult to argue that this was harmful. We must not allow ourselves to slide into nightmarish dreams about foreign interests seeking to disrupt British Airways.

The point was made about British Airways as a flag-carrier. I can only say, as I have stated before, that British Airways is such a large company, with such a wide network, that it must inevitably be regarded, for as far ahead as I can see, as Britain's prime flag-carrier across the world generally, except in those areas where British Caledonian has established itself, such as South America and the west coast of Africa, as the prime British flag-carrier. The Bill will make no difference to that situation. If it makes British Airways that bit more competitive as I hope it will, it should establish British Airways even more strongly as the great British flag-carrier.

Mr. Soley

I shall be brief, but I fear that I shall have to press this matter to a vote. The Minister has not convinced me that he has given adequate thought to the dangers confronting British Airways. If we stand by and say, at a time when we are watching the de-industrialisation of Britain, that British Airways will be able to manage and that it will be backed as has happened with the steel industry or any other industry, we may be in the grim position—perhaps a nightmare that comes true—of seeing British Airways, in a year or two, in the same position as British Steel. That is the problem.

It is not sufficient to say that British Airways will be protected by the Government's general interest in its welfare. It is natural that the Government should want British Airways to be the primary flag-carrier. Yet, at the same time, the Government are saying that routes should be opened to far more competition and prices brought down. No one is against bringing down prices and making air travel easier for the travelling public.

The problem is that, at the moment, British Airways has to carry routes that are not profitable. Even if those routes are dropped—that is not expected to happen—British Airways will have to compete on routes such as Hong Kong for which one has already seen cheap flights advertised. Someone will lose out. Not all the airlines will win all the time on that basis. Presumably the Minister assumes that the number of travelling passengers will increase and therefore lead to profitability on those routes for those companies. However, that assumes that the world economic climate will support that sort of air travel, and that is open to question.

We may find that the position of British Airways as the major flag-carrier is whittled away. It is not a case of another airline buying in with some malicious intention to damage. It is the case of a foreign airline buying in with the intention of picking up bits because it has an interest in surviving and building up its own empire. If such a company is in a stronger position at a time when, for example, British Airways is re-equipping and going through an economically difficult time, it is in the interests of that foreign airline to buy in and pick up any bits that are available to it, not with the intention of destroying British Airways, but in the normal process of competition. That is the danger facing British Airways.

I do not want to be unduly gloomy about it. However, if we do not take these matters as seriously as I suggest, we may find in a few years that British Airways are in the same position as British Steel Corporation.

Mr. Tebbit

The hon. Gentleman seems to forget that the British Steel Corporation is a nationalised corporation which has got into this mess. It has landed in the mess that it is in primarily because of a combination of the misdeeds of the Government, management and trade unions. What I am doing is to get British Airways away from the risk of being maladministered by the Government and away from Government interference. The point about the British Steel Corporation is that the responsibility for most of the jobs which have been lost, and which are to be lost in the next year or so, is to be put at the door of Lord Beswick and the Goverment's failure to carry out the proper management of the corporation. I am taking British Airways away from the risk of interference of the kind that the British Steel Corporation suffered from the last Government and which has led to the disaster which it is now experiencing.

Mr. Soley

I find it difficult to believe that anyone with the Minister's experience can be so politically naive as to talk about the maladministration of a nationalised industry at a time when bankruptcies among private companies are rocketing. Is the Minister suggesting that they are due to maladministration? Are private companies badly administered? Is that why they are going bankrupt? If it is maladministration, it means that maladministration can affect nationalised industries and private enterprise, too. However, there are economic causes over and above maladministration, and they affect both nationalised and private industries. It is this careless attitude of the Government towards the welfare of British industry in terms of unfair competition about which we complain. Directors of companies in my constituency, most of them Conservative supporters, tell me that they did not realise that they would be competing on unequal terms with firms in Europe and elsewhere. That is where they are feeling the draught. If I say to them, as the Minister says, that their difficulties are due to maladministration and that they had better pack their bags and go, they will not be too happy.

The Government fail to understand the economic problems facing British industry. I do not claim to be an expert in economics or industry, but I know the problems faced in both private and public industries. I chose the example of the British Steel Corporation. It is fair to say that it has experienced problems

in the past. However, we know that every other major steel-producing country gives far greater support to its steel industry than Britain ever has. That is why the British Steel Corporation is in trouble.

Let us have no more talk of maladministration. Private industries can be just as bureaucratic and just as inefficient as publicly-owned industries. I have worked for both kinds, and I know that at times it is difficult to choose between them, although it must be said that nationalised industries usually look after their work force and often their customers a bit better than do private industries do—[Interruption.] The Minister may well laugh, but I could produce evidence for that.

I do not wish to keep the House any longer. Two things are clear. One is that the overall philosophy of the Government is doing serious damage to the British economy. The second is that, in the case of British Airways, the Government are launching something which we all want to be successful, but they are launching it in such a way as to limit the possibility of success in the face of unfair competition. I therefore call for a vote on the amendment.

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 235, Noes 293.

Division No. 3791	AYES	[9.15 pm
Abse, Leo	Carmichael, Neil	Douglas, Dick
Adams, Allen	Carter-Jones, Lewis	Douglas-Mann, Bruce
Allaun, Frank	Cartwright, John	Dubs, Alfred
Anderson, Donald	Clark, Dr David (South Shields)	Duffy, A. E. P.
Archer, Rt Hon Peter	Cocks, Rt Hon Michael (Bristol S)	Dunnett, Jack
Armstrong, Rt Hon Ernest	Cohen, Stanley	Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Ashley, Rt Hon Jack	Coleman, Donald	Eadie, Alex
Ashton, Joe	Concannon, Rt Hon J. D.	Eastham, Ken
Atkinson, Norman (H'gey, Tott'ham)	Conian, Bernard	Ellis, Raymond (NE Derbyshire)
Bagier, Gordon A. T.	Cowans, Harry	English, Michael
Barnett, Guy (Greenwich)	Craigen, J. M. (Glasgow, Maryhill)	Ennals, Rt Hon David
Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood)	Crowther, J. S.	Evans, loan (Aberdare)
Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N)	Cryer, Bob	Evans, John (Newton)
Bidwell, Sydney	Cunliffe, Lawrence	Ewing, Harry
Booth, Rt Hon Albert	Cunningham, George (Islington S)	Faulds, Andrew
Boothroyd, Miss Betty	Cunningham, Dr John (Whitehaven)	Field, Frank
Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur (M'brough)	Dalyell, Tam	Fitch, Alan
Bradley, Tom	Davidson, Arthur	Flannery, Martin
Bray, Dr Jeremy	Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)	Fletcher, Ted (Darlington)
Brown, Hugh D. (Provan)	Davies, Ifor (Gower)	Foot, Rt Hon Michael
Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W)	Davis, Clinton (Hackney Central)	Ford, Ben
Brown, Ron (Edinburgh, Leith)	Deakins, Eric	Forrester, John
Buchan, Norman	Dean, Joseph (Leeds West)	Foster, Derek
Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P)	Dempsey, James	Fraser, John (Lambeth, Norwood)
Campbell, Ian	Dewar, Donald	Freeson, Rt Hon Reginald
Campbell-Savours, Dale	Dixon, Donald	Garrett, John (Norwich S)
Canavan, Dennis	Dobson, Frank	Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John
Cant, R. B.	Dormand, Jack	Ginsburg, David
Golding, John	Mackenzie, Rt Hon Gregor	Sandelson, Neville
Gourlay, Harry	Maclennan, Robert	Sever, John
Graham, Ted	McNally, Thomas	Sheerman, Barry
Grant, George (Morpeth)	McWilliam, John	Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert (A'ton-u-L)
Grant, John (Islington C)	Magee, Bryan	Shore, Rt Hon Peter (Step and Pop)
Hamilton, James (Bothwell)	Marks, Kenneth	Short, Mrs Renée
Hamilton, W. W. (Central Fife)	Marshall, David (Gl'sgow, Shettles'n)	Silverman, Julius
Harrison, Rt Hon Walter	Marshall, Jim (Leicester South)	Skinner, Dennis
Hart, Rt Hon Dame Judith	Martin, Michael (Gl'gow, Springb'rn)	Smith, Rt Hon J. (North Lanarkshire)
Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy	Mason, Rt Hon Roy	Soley, Clive
Haynes, Frank	Maxton, John	Spearing, Nigel
Healey, Rt Hon Denis	Maynard, Miss Joan	Spriggs, Leslie
Heffer, Eric S.	Meacher, Michael	Stallard, A. W.
Home Robertson, John	Mellish, Rt Hon Robert	Stewart, John (East Renfrewshire)
Homewood, William	Mikardo, Ian	Stoddart, David
Hooley, Frank	Millan, Rt Hon Bruce	Stott, Roger
Horam, John	Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, Itchen)	Strang, Gavin
Howell, Rt Hon Denis (B'ham, Sm H)	Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wythenshawe)	Straw, Jack
Huckfield, Les	Morris, Rt Hon Charles (Openshaw)	Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley
Hudson Davies, Gwilym Ednyfed	Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon)	Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton West)
Hughes, Mark (Durham)	Morton, George	Thomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
Hughes, Roy (Newport)	Moyle, Rt Hon Roland	Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery)
Janner, Hon Greville	Newens, Stanley	Thomas, Mike (Newcastle East)
Jay, Rt Hon Douglas	Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon	Thomas, Dr Roger (Carmarthen)
John, Brynmor	Ogden, Eric	Thorne, Stan (Preston South)
Johnson, James (Hull West)	O'Halloran, Michael	Tilley, John
Johnson, Walter (Derby South)	O'Neill, Martin	Tinn, James
Jones, Rt Hon Alec (Rhondda)	Orme, Rt Hon Stanley	Torney, Tom
Jones, Barry (East Flint)	Owen, Rt Hon Dr David	Varley, Rt Hon Eric G.
Jones, Dan (Burnley)	Palmer, Arthur	Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley)
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald	Park, George	Walker, Rt Hon Harold (Doncaster)
Kerr, Russell	Parker, John	Watkins, David
Kilroy-Silk, Robert	Parry, Robert	Weetch, Ken
Kinnock, Neil	Pendry, Tom	Wellbeloved, James
Lambie, David	Powell, Raymond (Ogmore)	Welsh, Michael
Lamborn, Harry	Prescott, John	White, Frank R. (Bury & Radcliffe)
Lamond, James	Price, Christopher (Lewisham West)	White, James (Glasgow, Pollok)
Leadbitter, Ted	Race, Reg	Whitlock, William
Leighton, Ronald	Radice, Giles	Willey, Rt Hon Frederick
Lestor, Miss Joan (Eton & Slough)	Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds South)	Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Swansea W)
Lewis, Arthur (Newham North West)	Richardson, Jo	Wilson, William (Coventry SE)
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle)	Roberts, Albert (Normanton)	Winnick, David
Litherland, Robert	Roberts, Allan (Bootle)	Woodall, Alec
Lofthouse, Geoffrey	Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock)	Woolmer, Kenneth
Lyon, Alexander (York)	Robertson, George	Wrigglesworth, Ian
Lyons, Edward (Bradford West)	Robinson, Geoffrey (Coventry NW)	Wright, Sheila
Mabon, Rt Hon Dr J. Dickson	Rodgers, Rt Hon William	Young, David (Bolton East)
McCartney, Hugh	Rooker, J. W.
McDonald, Dr Oonagh	Roper, John	TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
McElhone, Frank	Ross, Ernest (Dundee West)	Mr. Austin Mitchell and Mr. Terry Davis.
McKay, Allen (Penistone)	Rowlands, Ted
McKelvey, William	Ryman, John
NOES
Adley, Robert	Brittan, Leon	Critchley, Julian
Aitken, Jonathan	Brocklebank-Fowler, Christopher	Crouch, David
Alexander, Richard	Brooke, Hon Peter	Dean, Paul (North Somerset)
Ancram, Michael	Brotherton, Michael	Dickens, Geoffrey
Arnold, Tom	Brown, Michael (Brigg & Sc'thorpe)	Dorrell, Stephen
Aspinwall, Jack	Bruce-Gardyne, John	Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James
Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne)	Bryan, Sir Paul	Dover, Denshore
Atkins, Robert (Preston North)	Buchanan-Smith, Hon Alick	du Cann, Rt Hon Edward
Baker, Kenneth (St. Marylebone)	Buck, Antony	Dunn, Robert (Dartford)
Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset)	Budgen, Nick	Durant, Tony
Beaumont-Dark, Anthony	Bulmer, Esmond	Eden, Rt Hon Sir John
Bell, Sir Ronald	Burden, F. A.	Edwards, Rt Hon N. (Pembroke)
Bendall, Vivian	Butcher, John	Eggar, Timothy
Benyon, Thomas (Abingdon)	Butler, Hon Adam	Emery, Peter
Benyon, W. (Buckingham)	Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln)	Eyre, Reginald
Best, Keith	Chalker, Mrs Lynda	Fairgrieve, Russell
Bevan, David Gilroy	Channon, Paul	Faith, Mrs Sheila
Biffen, Rt Hon John	Chapman, Sydney	Farr, John
Biggs-Davison, John	Churchill, W. S.	Fell, Anthony
Blackburn, John	Clark, Hon Alan (Plymouth, Sutton)	Fenner, Mrs Peggy
Blaker, Peter	Clark, Sir William (Croydon south)	Finsberg, Geoffrey
Body, Richard	Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe)	Fisher, Sir Nigel
Bonsor, Sir Nicholas	Clegg, Sir Walter	Fletcher, Alexander (Edinburgh N)
Boscawen, Hon Robert	Cockeram, Eric	Fletcher-Cooke, Charles
Bottomley, Peter (Woolwich West)	Colvin, Michael	Fookes, Miss Janet
Bowden, Andrew	Cope, John	Forman, Nigel
Boyson, Dr Rhodes	Cormack, Patrick	Fowler, Rt Hon Norman
Braine, Sir Bernard	Corrie, John	Fraser, Peter (South Angus)
Bright, Graham	Costain, A. P.	Fry, Peter
Brinton, Tim	Cranborne, Viscount	Galbraith, Hon T. G. D.

Gardiner, George (Reigate)	McNair-Wilson, Michael (Newbury)	Roberts, Wyn (Conway)
Gardner, Edward (South Fylde)	McNair-Wilson, Patrick (New Forest)	Rost, Peter
Garel-Jones, Tristan	McQuarrie, Albert	Sainsbury, Hon Timothy
Glyn, Dr Alan	Madel, David	St. John-Stevas, Rt Hon Norman
Goodhew, Victor	Major, John	Scott, Nicholas
Goodlad, Alastair	Marland, Paul	Shaw, Michael (Scarborough)
Gorst, John	Marlow, Tony	Shelton, William (Streatham)
Gow, Ian	Marshall, Michael (Arundel)	Shepherd, Colin (Hereford)
Gower, Sir Raymond	Marten, Neil (Banbury)	Shepherd, Richard(Aldridge-Br'hills)
Gray, Hamish	Mates, Michael	Shersby, Michael
Greenway, Harry	Mather, Carol	Silvester, Fred
Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St Edmunds)	Maude, Rt Hon Angus	Sims, Roger
Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N)	Mawby, Ray	Skeet, T. H. H.
Grist, Ian	Mawhinney, Dr Brian	Speed, Keith
Gryils, Michael	Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin	Speller, Tony
Gummer, John Selwyn	Mayhew, Patrick	Spence, John
Hamilton, Hon Archie (Eps'm&Ew'il)	Mellor, David	Spicer, Jim (West Dorset)
Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury)	Meyer, Sir Anthony	Spicer, Michael (S Worcestershire)
Hampson, Dr Keith	Miller, Hal (Bromsgrove & Redditch)	Sproat, Iain
Hannam, John	Mills, Iain (Meriden)	Squire, Robin
Haselhurst, Alan	Mills, Peter (West Devon)	Stanbrook, Ivor
Havers, Rt Hon Sir Michael	Miscampbell, Norman	Stanley, John
Hawksley, Warren	Mitchell, David (Basingstoke)	Steen, Anthony
Hayhoe, Barney	Moate, Roger	Stevens, Martin
Heath, Rt Hon Edward	Molyneaux, James	Stewart, Ian (Hitchin)
Heddle, John	Monro, Hector	Stewart, John (East Renfrewshire)
Henderson, Barry	Montgomery, Fergus	Stokes, John
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael	Moore, John	Stradling Thomas, J.
Hicks, Robert	Morgan, Geraint	Tapsell, Peter
Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L.	Morris, Michael (Northampton, Sth)	Taylor, Robert (Croydon NW)
Hill, James	Morrison, Hon Charles (Devizes)	Tebbit, Norman
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Grantham)	Morrison, Hon Peter (City of Chester)	Temple-Morris, Peter
Holland, Philip (Carlton)	Mudd, David	Thomas, Rt Hon Peter (Hendon S)
Hooson, Tom	Murphy, Christopher	Thompson, Donald
Hordern, Peter	Myles, David	Thorne, Neil (Ilford South)
Howell, Rt Hon David (Guildford)	Neale, Gerrard	Thornton, Malcolm
Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk)	Needham, Richard	Townend, John (Bridlington)
Howells, Geraint	Nelson, Anthony	Townsend, Cyril D. (Bexleyheath)
Hunt, David (Wirral)	Neubert, Michael	Trippier, David
Hunt, John (Ravensbourne)	Newton, Tony	Trotter, Neville
Irving, Charles (Cheltenham)	Nott, Rt Hon John	van Straubenzee, W. R.
Jenkin, Rt Hon Patrick	Onslow, Cranley	Vaughan, Dr Gerard
Johnson Smith, Geoffrey	Oppenhelm, Rt Hon Mrs Sally	Viggers, Peter
Jopling, Rt Hon Michael	Page, Rt Hon Sir R. Graham	Waddington, David
Kaberry, Sir Donald	Page, Richard (SW Hertfordshire)	Wakeham, John
Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine	Parkinson, Cecil	Waldegrave, Hon William
Kimball, Marcus	Parris, Matthew	Walker, Bill (Perth & E Perthshire)
Kitson, Sir Timothy	Patten, Christopher (Bath)	Walker-Smith, Rt Hon Sir Derek
Knox, David	Patten, John (Oxford)	Wall, Patrick
Lamont, Norman	Pattie, Geoffrey	Waller, Gary
Lang, Ian	Pawsey, James	Walters, Dennis
Langford-Holt, Sir John	Penhaligon, David	Ward, John
Latham, Michael	Percival, Sir Ian	Warren, Kenneth
Lawrence, Ivan	Pollock, Alexander	Watson, John
Lawson, Nigel	Porter, George	Wells, John (Maidstone)
Lee, John	Price, David (Eastleigh)	Wells, Bowen (Hert'rd & Stev'nage)
Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark	Prior, Rt Hon James	Wheeler, John
Lester, Jim (Beeston)	Proctor, K. Harvey	Whitelaw, Rt Hon William
Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland)	Raison, Timothy	Whitney, Raymond
Lloyd, Ian (Havant & Waterloo)	Rathbone, Tim	Wickenden, Keith
Lloyd, Peter (Fareham)	Rees, Peter (Dover and Deal)	Wiggin, Jerry
Loveridge, John	Rees-Davies, W. R.	Williams, Delwyn (Montgomery)
Luce, Richard	Renton, Tim	Winterton, Nicholas
Lyell, Nicholas	Rhodes James, Robert	Wolfson, Mark
McCrindle, Robert	Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon	Young, Sir George (Acton)
Macfarlane, Neil	Ridley, Hon Nicholas
MacGregor, John	Ridsdale, Julian	TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
MacKay, John (Argyll)	Rifkind, Malcolm	Mr. Spencer Le Marchant and Mr. Anthony Berry.
Macmillan, Rt Hon M. (Famham)	Roberts, Michael (Cardiff NW)

Question accordingly negatived.