HC Deb 11 June 1980 vol 986 cc536-8
6. Mr. Lambie

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what percentage for increases in teacher's salaries was used in the rate support grant settlement for 1980–81.

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Malcolm Rifkind)

Separate provision for individual pay settlements is not made within the cash limit total.

Mr. Lambie

When will Ministers come clean and give an honest answer about public sector salaries? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that although specific figures are not given, the Government have given an overall figure of 13 per cent. for increases in public sector salaries? If the Government do not increase the percentage given in the rate support grant, how can Scottish teachers gain an increase of 18.6 per cent., without incurring a substantial increase in the rates? When will the Government increase that percentage?

Mr. Rifkind

The hon. Gentleman's assumptions are wrong. The figure of 13 per cent. relates to overall cost increases. Pay is only one factor.

Mr. Henderson

Whatever the precise amount provided for teachers' pay in the rate support grant, is it not more realistic than the amount provided by the previous Labour Government? Is not my hon. Friend surprised that, although the Clegg award has just restored the five-year erosion of the Houghton awards, teachers have chosen to disrupt classrooms within a month of that settlement?

Mr. Rifkind

My hon. Friend is correct to say that in the last year of the previous Labour Government an allowance of 5 per cent. was made for average salary increases. That figure was unrealistic. My hon. Friend is also right to say that industrial action by teachers is unlikely to help their cause, which will be judged on its merits alone.

Mr. David Steel

Is the Minister aware that earlier when I used the figure of 13 per cent. the Secretary of State said that it was wrong? What is the right figure?

Mr. Rifkind

My right hon. Friend has made it clear that no specific figure was allowed for individual pay settlements. An overall figure of 13 per cent. was allowed for cost increases. That figure includes a special figure of 6 per cent. for comparability awards. The amounts to be settled in individual cases will be decided solely by those taking part in the negotiations.

Mr. Harry Ewing

Does the Minister accept that during the last year of the previous Labour Government inflation ran at 8 per cent? Does he further accept that during the first year of this Tory Government inflation has risen to 22 per cent. and that there is every prospect that it will continue to rise? The Minister has spoken about salary increases being part of the element under consideration. Will he accept that that is the most important part of the equation? How can the Secretary of State tell the right hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. Steel) that the figure is higher than 13 per cent., when the Minister will not tell what the figure is? For how long will the Government continue to confuse teachers?

Mr. Rifkind

The hon. Gentleman must appreciate that local authorities are the employers. The Government cannot ignore the fact that local authorities in Scotland have budgeted for volume expenditure of £83 million more than was assumed at the time of the rate support grant. The hon. Gentleman is therefore wrong to suggest that the cash limit of £194 million—a substantial amount—should be increased, despite the excessive budgeting of local authorities.