HC Deb 29 July 1980 vol 989 cc1274-5
9. Mr. Newens

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services in what circumstances he is prepared to use his powers of default in the case of removal of facilities at present provided by local authorities for disabled persons.

Mr. Prentice

I will continue to consider each case put to me on its merits.

Mr. Newens

Is the Minister aware that the Essex county council's plans to introduce a 25p per day charge to the disabled for attendance at day centres and a moratorium on the provision of telephones have produced such disgust in the county that even some Conservative councillors voted against the first proposal and that members of NALGO are refusing to collect the charges? If he has the power, will he use is to ensure that the disabled are not treated in this disgraceful way? Would it not be disgraceful not to use those powers?

Mr. Prentice

No. The default power relates to individual cases, not to general policies. The hon. Gentleman has written to me about the moratorium on telephones. We are in touch with Essex about the possible implications. In general, I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's extravagant language. I hope that he will discourage members of NALGO from failing to carry out the instructions of the county council by which they are employed.

Dr. McDonald

Is the Minister aware that the mentally and physically disabled in my area are up in arms about the stinginess of Essex county council in imposing this charge for attendance at day centres? Will he reconsider his decision to refuse to direct the Supplementary Benefits Commission to reimburse those on supplementary benefit? Is he aware that these charges are the direct result of the Government's policies? They have cut the rate support grant to such an extent that Essex has had to resort to these means and make sure that the weak and the disabled suffer most.

Mr. Prentice

Several authorities are making modest charges for day centres to reduce, often only marginally, public subsidy for those centres. I see no objection to that, provided that arrangements are made to relieve those who cannot afford to pay. I would rather see modest charges made than see those centres close down.

Mr. Alfred Morris

We have been told that Essex county council is charging some severely disabled people—mostly very poor people—for attending day centres. If some of them cannot pay the charge, is that not in effect a withdrawal of service? Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that I made public at Ebbw Vale in 1977 the legal advice available to the Department? Should he not now at least remind Essex county council of the Government's default powers?

Mr. Prentice

I think that the council is aware of them. I answered a recent question on the general subject of charging. No default order has been made either by the previous Labour Government or by this Government. Some Opposition Members and some sections of the disablement lobby have caused great agitation by trying to encourage people to make default orders. That is not happening. Fewer than half a dozen cases are in the pipeline. That shows that all the talk by Opposition Members about local authority cuts in this area is exaggerated.