New Technology (Hansard, 23 July 1980)

§ 63. Mr. Lee
asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement on the introduction of new technology to 495 save money and increase efficiency in the Civil Service.

§ Mr. Channon
I am determined to use all effective modern methods to increase efficiency and save money. A great deal has already been done on this front, and talks are continuing with the unions to enable us to press ahead still further.

§ Mr. Lee
Is my right hon. Friend aware that about 200 hon. Members, representing virtually all sides of the House, have signed three early-day motions urging the Government to award the Inland Revenue computer contract to the indigenous British computer company, ICL? Can he give an indication of when the Government are likely to make a decision? Does he realise that continued delay can only damage the international reputation and credibility of ICL?

§ Mr. Channon
I am well aware of the early-day motions, and of the strength of feeling in the House. However, I cannot add anything further to what my right hon Friend the Prime Minister said in answer to questions on 17 July.

§ Mr. Wrigglesworth
Will the Minister give an assurance to the House that he will do his level best to ensure that the decision is announced before the House rises for the parliamentary recess? Is he aware that some hon. Members are worried that a decision to put the computer contract out to open tender may be taken without the House having had an opportunity to debate the matter?

§ Mr. Channon
I cannot give a guarantee on that, because I do not know the timing of events. However, I shall certainly draw the hon. Gentleman's remarks to the attention of my right hon. Friend.

§ Mr. Arthur Lewis
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I know that the Minister meant it jocularly, but as this is not the first time that he has adopted that attitude—which has nothing to do with the question or the answer, so it is out of order—may I ask whether it is not a fact that I have the right, much as he, the civil servants and the Government may not like it, to table as many different questions as I choose? It is not for the Minister to sit with a sneer on his face and try to prevent me from putting questions—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman is quite right. He is well within his rights in tabling written questions for answer in the House.

§ Mr. Skinner
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of what you have already said, and in view of my hon. Friend's comments, would it not also be worth while taking into account that from time to time, possibly every week, Ministers, and perhaps the Minister who is involved in this little fracas, far from saving money on written questions, get some of their horrible Back Benchers to plant questions? That also costs money.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. For as long as I have been in the House, that unworthy suspicion has been in hon. Members' minds

§ Mr. Winnick
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. With regard to the rights and privileges of hon. Members, will you give some thought as to how hon. Members can be protected against abuse? I refer to the way in which the most controversial subjects, such as the question of arms sales to Chile, have been buried in written replies.

Several Hon. Members rose
—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is not a matter that is within my discretion, and I cannot rule on it. It is not a point of order. How Ministers reveal their information is a matter for them. The hon. Gentleman must pursue his point in some other way, rather than through a point of order.

§ Mr. Winnick
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I have just explained to the hon. Gentleman that the matter is not a point of order, and I cannot rule on it.

§ Mr. Winnick
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I briefly make the point—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
I have just dealt with it.

§ Mr. English
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I draw to your attention the fact that the Civil Service Department has deliberately increased the number of written questions? When I 497 tabled a written question about the entertainment and foreign travelling expenses of civil servants I was told that I must ask the question of every Department, because the Civil Service Department did not know the answer.

§ The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. Norman St. John-Stevas)
If I may intervene in this fracas, may I say that I have heard the exchange that has taken place? It is clear that every hon. Member has a right to ask questions, but there is also a well-known rule that Ministers are not obliged to answer questions if unnecessary expense is involved. We have to keep a balance in the matter. I shall look into the complaint of the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Lewis), and I shall write to him.

§ Mr. Kenneth Lewis
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Following the statement by the Leader of the House, may I suggest that if the House rises early for the Summer Recess Ministers will have fewer questions to answer?

§ Mr. Winnick
Further to my point of order, and also perhaps on a different point of order, Mr. Speaker. Controversial statements are made, and people outside are deeply concerned, rightly or wrongly—in my view rightly—about arms being sold to a blood-stained ré gime—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I understand the hon. Gentleman's feeling. May I say to the House, because it will stand us in good stead on other occasions, that when hon. Members feel deeply about certain matters we must take care to safeguard the traditions and rules of the House. It is in the interests of all hon. Members.

§ Mr. Alexander W. Lyon
Further to the original point of order and the answer of the Leader of the House, Mr. Speaker. I do not know whether it is widely known that the Government have set a financial limit on the value of a question. Some have been deemed to be too expensive to answer. That level has not been raised in recent years, and because of the rising level of inflation a greater proportion of questions are not being answered. Surely the House should be able to take up that matter with the Government.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has made his point. As a Minister, I always answered every question.

§ Mr. Greville Janner
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it now in order for Ministers to deflect questions asked of them to local authorities? That did not happen previously, but it is now happening, and we cannot get the answers that we want.

§ Mr. Speaker
I am not responsible for the way in which Ministers answer questions.