§ 2. Mr. Greville Jannerasked the Lord Privy Seal if he will raise the cause of those Soviet Jews who have applied to leave the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics at the forthcoming Madrid review conference to review the Helsinki agreement.
§ 3. Mr. Lawrenceasked the Lord Privy Seal whether he intends to ensure that the situation faced by Soviet Jews seeking to leave the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics will be on the agenda for the forthcoming Madrid review conference.
§ Mr. BlakerThe Government will certainly press at Madrid for all signatory States, including the Soviet Union, to fulfil their commitments under the Helsinki Final Act. These include respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms
for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religionand dealingin a positive and humanitarian spirit with the applications of persons who wish to be reunited with members of their family".
§ Mr. JannerI appreciate that answer, but does the Minister agree that the Soviet Union has failed to comply with that obligation in respect of its Jewish minority, which has been harassed and persecuted more than ever, with the numbers allowed to leave having been reduced? Is he aware that within the past two days a young student in Leningrad—Grigori Geishis—has been arrested? Does he agree that this sort of behaviour causes great harm to good relations between our country and the Soviet Union?
§ Mr. BlakerI agree with the hon. and learned Gentleman. It is worrying that the number of Jews allowed to leave the Soviet Union this year has decreased. Last year the figure was almost 50,000. It was only 2,200 per month in April and May. That appears to be because the Soviet Union is applying a more restrictive definition to the term "kinship", and that we regret.
§ Mr. LawrenceIs my hon. Friend aware that the suppression of cultural and religious freedoms in the Soviet Union, with the Government-inspired wave of anti-semitism, are by themselves significant betrayals of the Helsinki principles? Will he undertake to urge his Common Market friends to make the strongest possible objections to this course of action when the Madrid conference convenes?
§ Mr. BlakerI assure my hon. Friend that we shall take this matter up very seriously in Madrid in the light of the failure of the Soviet Union to fulfil its obligations under the Helsinki agreement.
§ Mr. James LamondThe question of human rights is important, whether in the Soviet Union or in Israel. However, will the Minister undertake to see that the Madrid conference does not deteriorate into bickering between East and West about human rights, but is used as a platform for a more positive approach on the question of peace and disarmament, which is the only alternative open to the world?
§ Mr. BlakerI recognise the interest of the hon. Member in matters relating to the Soviet Union. He is a vice-president of the World Peace Council, which is a disguised instrument of Soviet policy.
§ Mr. James LamondNonsense.
§ Mr. Russell KerrMy hon. Friend is doing something towards world peace. What are you doing?
§ Mr. EmeryWhat action is my hon. Friend taking under the Helsinki agreement to monitor and publish Soviet action during the Olympic Games?
§ Mr. BlakerMy hon. Friend will find set out in the answer that I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Chislehurst (Mr. Sims) on 2 July the position over the last six months to date. That deals with the subject fairly fully. We are continuing to monitor the Soviet performance.
§ Mr. James LamondI have a point of order to raise, Mr. Speaker, but I do not want to interrupt Question Time. May I pursue it with you later?
§ Mr. SpeakerCertainly. The hon. Member may do so after questions.
§ Later—
§ Mr. James LamondOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. There has recently been discussion in this House and in the press concerning the raising of questions about individuals in the House, because individuals have no opportunity to make a proper reply at the time. Sometimes—I believe that it occurred today—Ministers also raise such questions, although perhaps on a reduced scale.
You may recall, Mr. Speaker, that in reply to question No. 2—some time ago now—the Minister—the hon. Member for Blackpool, South (Mr. Blaker)—sought to answer a question that I had raised. He did not refer to the serious and reasonable question that I asked about human rights. He accused me of being a member of a certain body. I believe that he said that that body was the concealed arm of Soviet foreign policy. I am proud of the fact that I am the vice-president of the World Peace Council. That is no secret. Hon. Members will find that it is revealed in the Register of Members' Interests. Indeed, they can discover that fact in any reference book that they choose to consult. I am proud to let it be placed on record that I hold that position.
Perhaps I may say a few words about the World Peace Council. I shall not speak for too long—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Since I became Speaker I have always worked on the principle that if an hon. Member feels that he has been criticised he should be given a chance to explain.
§ Mr. LamondI thank you, Mr. Speaker, for your consideration. If I thought for one moment that the World Peace Council could be described in such a way, I would resign immediately. The World Peace Council has its headquarters in Helsinki. Its executive secretary is a member of the Australian Labour Party. It is financed by contributions from members throughout the world, including myself. None of the money comes from Governments. [Interruption.] If any hon. Members can prove to me that the World Peace Council receives money from, the Soviet Government, the British Government or any other Government, I shall resign my position immediately.
§ Mr. SpeakerI allowed the hon. Gentleman to make his position quite clear. He understands that I can do no more.
§ Mr. Frank AllaunFurther to the point of order, Mr. Speaker, raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Olham, East (Mr. Lamond). Should not the Minister—the hon. Member for Blackpool, South (Mr. Blaker)—withdrew his remarks.
§ Mr. SpeakerI think that we had better move on. [HON. MEMBERS: "No".] Order. It is not for me to call upon the Minister to withdraw his remarks. [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw".] Order. Hon. Members know that at this stage I cannot ask a Minister, or any hon. Member to withdraw a statement that was made half an hour ago, during Question Time.
§ Mr. FootFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. It appeared to some hon. Members that the Minister wished to rise. We assumed that he was doing so in order to apologise to the House. I hope that he was doing that. It is true that I was not in the House when the Minister made his remarks. However, I hope that the Minister will rise and do the decent thing. From what we know of him, that may be expecting a bit much. I should have hoped that he would do his best to try.
§ Mr. BlakerFurther to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry that I did not give the hon. Member for Oldham, East (Mr. Lamond) a fuller and longer answer. I was bearing in mind the injunction, that you had given. As for what I said about the World Peace Council, I do not withdraw a word.