HC Deb 16 July 1980 vol 988 cc1486-9
51. Mr. Cryer

asked the Lord Privy Seal when next he expects to meet other EEC Ministers to discuss the future planning of the Community.

Sir Ian Gilmour

I expect to meet my Community colleagues at the Foreign Affairs Council on 22 July. The agenda for the meeting has not yet been finalised.

Mr. Cryer

With regard to the future planning of the Community, will the Lord Privy Seal explain the extent to which the Community will have power to control projects that are authorised under the scheme to refund money to those countries that are owed it? Given the fact that the refund is possible only with the approval of the Community, does that not mean that there has been a shift of power from the United Kingdom Parliament and Government to Brussels? Does he regret that trend? If he does, will he seek to reverse it in future Community planning?

Sir I. Gilmour

The hon. Gentleman is not quite correct. He should welcome the considerable success that we have gained in achieving a substantial reduction in the United Kingdom's net contribution to the Community budget. The regulation is now being worked out, but it is not our intention—it cannot be read into the conclusions of the 29–30 May Council—that the Community should control our public expenditure projects.

Mr. Jim Spicer

When the Foreign Affairs Ministers meet, particularly to discuss political co-operation, will my right hon. Friend take account of the great unease that exists in Turkey about its position following the accession of Greece to the EEC? Will he give an undertaking that the Government will take some steps to put that unease at rest and reassure the Turks that we take full account of their position not only in relation to the Community, but also in relation to NATO?

Sir I. Gilmour

As I think I have assured my hon. Friend in the past, I share his concern over Turkey. We regard the position of Turkey as a matter of the greatest importance, and we all welcome the recent agreement with Turkey.

Mr. Skinner

Will the Lord Privy Seal explain how the Conservative Government will get round the dilemma of reclaiming some of the money, bearing in mind that during his first Budget speech the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, in reply to me, that if any money was forthcoming from the attempts to cut the budget, none of it would be used to cut public expenditure? How on earth can that be reconciled with the fact that, to reclaim some of this money, pound for pound will have to be spent on some projects to increase public expenditure? Should not the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Prime Minister explain to the House how they will get out of that dilemma?

Sir I. Gilmour

There is no dilemma, and the premises on which the hon. Gentleman bases his question are wrong.

Mr. Skinner

It is on the record.

Sir I. Gilmour

We are not obliged to spend pound for pound, and the Community money does not oblige the Government to spend money on projects that they would not otherwise have been expected to fund.

Mr. McQuarrie

When my right hon. Friend meets the EEC Ministers to discuss future planning in the Community, will he ensure that the question of the closure of the border at Gibraltar is taken into consideration before Spain is allowed to accede to the Community?

Sir I. Gilmour

My hon. Friend, who follows these matters extremely closely, will be aware that my right hon. and noble Friend met the Spanish Foreign Minister and made an agreement at Lisbon, and that the talks on the matter are still continuing. I shall be very disappointed if there is any question of the matter to which my hon. Friend refers not being settled long before Spain joins the Community.

Mrs. Dunwoody

The right hon. Gentleman may dismiss the argument of my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) on the ground that some of his facts are wrong, but is it not true, nevertheless, that if the Foreign Office is to be the lead Department in deciding which projects are acceptable, it will be the Community that will decide the priorities, and it will be the Community that will decide what is acceptable? If that happens, will it not be true to say that the Government will have handed over responsibility for public expenditure to Brussels, in no uncertain terms?

Sir I. Gilmour

No. The hon. Lady has got it just as wrong as her hon. Friend. I apologise to the hon. Member for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing) if I misunderstood him. The Foreign Office may be responsible for putting forward the projects, but obviously the Foreign Office will not be the one to decide it all. Even if that were the case, the idea that that would somehow be handing the decision over to the Commission is wrong, as the hon. Member should realise.