§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to 751 my duties in this House, I shall be having further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.
§ Mr. AltonWill the Prime Minister today take time to discuss with her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment his statement that he believes in the introduction of compulsory work for the unemployed and his subsequent retraction of that scheme? Will the right hon. Lady tell the House whether she or he make Government policy and whether that scheme is Government policy?
§ The Prime MinisterMy right hon. Friend did not say that he believed in compulsory social work for the unemployed, so there was never any need to retract a statement which he did not make. What he said was that he believes that there are a number of young unemployed people who, as well as getting something out of the system, would very much like to put something in, and would feel it very much better to spend some of their time doing social work until they could get a job. We have had preliminary suggestions to that end and we are pursuing them.
Mr. James CallaghanAs every young unemployed person would like to be at work, and as it is costing the Government and the State between £5 billion and £10 billion a year to keep them unemployed, why not expand the economy and give them real jobs and real wages?
§ The Prime MinisterI can no more guarantee jobs for everyone than the right hon. Gentleman. It was he who substantially increased unemployment. Had he left us with numbers of unemployed equivalent to those that we left him—which were very much lower—the number of unemployed now would be very much lower than it is.
Mr. CallaghanDoes the right hon. Lady regard the increase in redundancies, which have more than doubled over the past 12 months, and the short-time working, which has more than quadrupled during the past 12 months, as evidence of the success of her policy, or is it nothing to do with her?
§ The Prime MinisterI am afraid that it is the inevitable consequence of having to deal with some of the appalling situa- 752 tions which the right hon. Gentleman left me with. The right hon. Gentleman is now asking me to print more money in order to spend our way out of inflation. He knows that we cannot do that. If we were to go for increasing inflation we would also go for increasing unemployment. We will not do it.
Mr. CallaghanWhat does the right hon. Lady mean when she says that in such an event we should go for increasing inflation? Does not she realise that it is possible to keep inflation under control, and to have a diminishing and decreasing unemployment level, provided that she adopts the correct economic policies? When will she take responsibility for this scandal, for which she is responsible?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman is asking—[HON. MEMBERS: "Dodging."] I do not dodge the issue. I remember very well the right hon. Gentleman saying that one cannot spend one's way out of inflation. He is asking us to do precisely that by printing more money or borrowing more money and putting up the interest rate. [Interruption.] If we were to do that—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. It is difficult for me to hear what the Prime Minister is saying. [Interruption.] Order. Whatever it is, the Prime Minister is entitled to say it.
§ Mr. PeytonDoes not my right hon. Friend think that it is odd that so innocent a remark and suggestion as that made by her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment should have provoked quite such a hysterical reaction from those hon. Members who are normally so enthusiastic about giving something for nothing?
§ The Prime MinisterI am grateful to my right hon. Friend. We are anxious to help some of those young unemployed, and if we can do so by assisting them to do some social work, we shall take that opportunity.
§ Mr. James A. DunnOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The right hon. Lady is not addressing the House, and we cannot hear her.
§ Mr. SpeakerI am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and I hope that all hon. Members will co-operate to try to ensure that we can hear everything that is said.
§ Q2. Mr. Geraint Howellsasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 10 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Member to the reply which I have just given.
§ Mr. HowellsWill the Prime Minister take time today to discuss Welsh broadcasting and television services in Wales with the Home Secretary and the Secretary of State for Wales? What plans has she to save Mr. Gwynfor Evans, president of Plaid Cymru, from starving to death in October?
§ The Prime MinisterI deeply regret Mr. Gwynfor Evans's threat. Neither he nor any responsible person can ever expect a Government to respond to that sort of action. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has already made a speech from this Dispatch Box on Welsh broadcasting, and he pointed out that if the arrangements that he has already made do not prove satisfactory he is prepared to look at them again.
§ Mr. AitkenIs my right hon. Friend aware that all the indignation from the Opposition Benches this afternoon is in sharp contrast to the scene at the Select Committee on Employment yesterday afternoon, when my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State made his proposal? Is she aware that Labour members of the Committee did not ask a single question—hostile or otherwise—because it was clear that the Secretary of State was simply putting forward an optional scheme to relieve the tedium of unemployment?
§ Mr. CryerOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it not contempt of the House for proceedings of a Select Committee to be disclosed—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. This matter arose yesterday, and I explained that when a Select Committee is held in public no secret is revealed.
§ The Prime MinisterWith regard to my hon. Friend's question, the work of the Community Service Volunteers is greatly admired. They assist with a number of schemes under the youth opportunities employment programme, and it is apparent from what is happening in the House this afternoon that many young 754 people have far more ideals than Opposition members.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisDuring the Prime Minister's heavy day will she please do something that every hon. Member will support? Will she send a letter or telegram to John and Harriet Orton, who are 104 and 102 years of age respectively, congratulating them on having achieved 80 years of happy, married life? May I say, even though I may be out of order when I say it, that I know they are staunch Methodists, and perhaps you, Mr. Speaker, may also like to send them a message.
§ The Prime MinisterI am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that suggestion. I have already sent a personal telegram, and I would be only too happy to send a telegram on behalf of the House. I am happy with the hon. Gentleman's suggestion that I should join the House's most distinguished bachelor in doing so.
§ Mr. SpeakerI merely tell the House that I have sent a telegram. It is my ambition to emulate the couple.
§ The Prime MinisterHope springs eternal, Mr. Speaker.