School Books

HC Deb 08 July 1980 vol 988 cc216-20

3. Mr. Cryer

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what discussions he has had with local education authorities regarding the provision of school books.

The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Neil Macfarlane)

Officers of my Department and of the local authority associations are currently engaged in detailed discussions about the Government's expenditure plans and their implications for local authority expenditure, including expenditure on school books and equipment.

Mr. Cryer

Has the Secretary of State changed his mind since attending the press conference of the National Association of Head Teachers, where he stumbled into the vicious and hardhearted notion that parents should buy school textbooks? Has he seen that the proposals put forward by a headmaster of a Solihull comprehensive school has been condemned as moral blackmail? Does he not know that all the teaching unions have condemned the proposal that parents should be forced and blackmailed into buying textbooks? Is this not a demonstration of the Government's warped and corrupt priorities? They are forcing parents to buy books, yet they are spending £10.7 billion on defence.

Mr. Macfarlane

At the risk of not being succinct, I should point out that the House must understand precisely what has occurred during the past few weeks. Once again the hon. Member for Keighley (Mr. Cryer) has exaggerated his case. His remarks will not persuade any Conservative Members. He should understand that as he was not present at the press conference that took place in Cheltenham he is unaware that my right hon. and learned Friend did no more than echo the long tradition that parent-teacher associations raise money to buy books and equipment for schools. Such exaggeration was highlighted a few weeks ago. I hope that I shall put the record straight when I point out that in response to a question by my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin (Mr. Hawksley) on 25 June, my right hon. and learned Friend made it clear that an exaggerated article appeared in The Teacher, which indicated that there were no textbooks in a particular school. We have looked into the matter and discovered that it involves a comprehensive school for 12- to 18-year-olds. The school has 26,000 textbooks on its premises. In addition, the library has 8,500 books. I hope that Opposition Members will understand once and for all that they do not serve national or constituency interests when they make such exaggerated claims.

Mr. Greenway

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a large amount of hard and software in use in schools, including photocopiers, which is very expensive? Does he accept that there has been a change in the pattern of education, particularly at secondary level, and that expenditure on books will not reach former levels because there is so much alleviating expenditure in other areas?

Mr. Macfarlane

My hon. Friend has made an accurate historical survey of the past 10 years. Over the past 10 or 15 years there has been a wider use of different equipment in the classroom. Expenditure may therefore have got out of balance in that area.

Mr. Kinnock

Has not the situation in Britain's schools been grossly misrepresented? Does the hon. Gentleman accept that, according to The Times Educational Supplement, parents raised £23 million last year? Does he accept also that much of that money is of dire necessity because of the shortage of school books? Until the hon. Gentleman has found a way to replace the irreplaceable—the educational value of school books—will he confine himself to fulfilling his duty? Will he ensure that sufficient supplies of necessary materials are available to children in schools? Will he stop being complacent and atavistic in his attitude towards what has gone on in the past?

Mr. Macfarlane

Nobody in the Department of Education and Science is complacent. One source of gross misrepresentation has been the behaviour of the hon. Member for Bedwellty (Mr. Kinnock).

Mr. Kinnock

The hon. Gentleman will not get away with that.

Mr. Macfarlane

The one person who has not got away with it is the hon. Gentleman. If hon. Members read the reply that my right hon. and learned Friend gave on 25 June, they will see that the source of information about that school in Staffordshire—as reported in The Teacher—was the hon. Member for Bedwellty. There is no truth in that story.

Mr. Kinnock

In view of the fact that the reference in The Teacher was obviously hyperbole, and that the article contained a misprint in that it referred to "Wellington", not Werrington, I fail to see how morale was affected in any of the ways that the Under-Secretary has suggested. Is it not a fact that until his right hon. and learned Friend went to the extraordinary pains and expense of getting a planted question on this matter no one was affected by it?

Mr. Macfarlane

Methinks the hon. Member doth protest too much. The only person who has engaged in hyperbole is the hon. Member for Bedwellty. It is a shame that once again his reputation is somewhat tattered and torn. I am sorry not to be succinct on this occasion, but I must point out that the Government have announced an increase in expenditure of £35 million over the next three years. In addition, the Government have allowed for an increase of 2 per cent. in expenditure on books in the current financial year.

Mr. Gummer

We very much welcome that increase in expenditure. Will my hon. Friend talk not only to the local authorities but to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment, because the rural areas are still suffering from the gerrymandering of the rate support grant? Is my hon. Friend aware that this means that schools in rural areas are doing less well than those with over-provision in many of the large urban areas?

Mr. Macfarlane

That is a valid point. I hope that a dialogue will take place between my Department and the Department of the Environment.

Mr. Cryer

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I shall seek leave to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

4. Mr. Christopher Price

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the total expenditure on school textbooks and other classroom materials in each of the last five years.

Dr. Boyson

The information for the financial year 1979–80 is not yet available. Expenditure in real terms for the previous four years was respectively—£194 million, £188 million, £181 million and £187 million.

Mr. Price

Is the Minister aware that those figures show that it is important to try to maintain the level of expenditure? Following the answers that were given to the last question, is he aware that when fees were made illegal in grant-aided schools under the 1944 Education Act, it was always considered that charging money for textbooks was included in that provision? Is he now saying that the Government take the opposite view and that they believe that the 1944 Act did not cover payment for school books?

Dr. Boyson

Some years ago when I was teaching in schools, and the hon. Member was a teacher himself, I remember money being used from the school fund, raised by parents, to provide sixth form books when there was a shortage. I was trying to help the hon. Member by giving this year's figures but he has chosen to make cheap points. The figures this year are likely to be the same in real terms as those for last year, if not slightly higher.

I realise that under the 1944 Act it is the duty of local education authorities to provide the basic structure within schools without fees, but that does not stop parents, wherever they wish, from voluntarily giving money to schools for additional facilities. Such facilities may include books for the library or for use within schools.

Mr. Forman

Is my hon. Friend aware that the estimate of £35 million mentioned in the last question for school equipment and books will be very welcome? Can he assure the House that the money that is earmarked for that purpose over that period will be spent by local education authorities for that purpose?

Dr. Boyson

I am glad that my hon. Friend welcomes the £35 million. We have put back that amount because it is the amount thtat would have been spent had there not been cuts by the Labour Government in 1976–77. We are restoring the situation to what it would have been without those cuts. On the second point, one cannot have local democracy and at the same time put a gun at local authorities' backs every time they make a decision. All that we can do is to indicate that we consider that books are important as part of the basic structure of school facilities and the education of children, and any money spent on them is certainly never wasted.

Mr. Flannery

Will the Minister stop pretending that there is not a serious crisis in Star schools over school textbooks? Such a crisis exists, and if the Minister will not accept what has been said, quite correctly, from this side of the House, will he ask the Publishers Association, which has repeatedly told us recently that the drop in the sale of textbooks in schools is catastrophic? The association is deeply worried about the situation. What has the Minister to say about that?

Dr. Boyson

I always enjoy the hon. Member's interventions. He is indulging in hyperbole, in the same way as his hon. Friend the Member for Bedwellty (Mr. Kinnock) did. The figures for money spent on school books are largely static in real terms. Schools can always use more books. It would be interesting to know the lifetime of books in schools today, compared with 20 years ago. There was a time when books were replaced every five years, and it would be interesting to have comparisons of figures for the past 20 years.