HC Deb 01 July 1980 vol 987 cc1287-9
7. Mr. Moate

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the likely timetable for the introduction of changes in the structure of the National Health Service.

Mr. Patrick Jenkin

I expect to make a statement later this month on changes to the structure and management arrangements of the National Health Service and this will include the timetable for their implementation.

Mr. Moate

Does my right hon. Friend agree that continuing uncertainty is unsettling? In the meantime will he give some indication to the House as to the year in which he expects the changes to be implemented? If the system is to be based upon new and stronger ditricts does he agree that there needs to be local and outsider chairmen and local representation on those bodies? When does my right hon. Friend expect to make those appointments?

Mr. Jenkin

I must ask my hon. Friend to await the statement which I hope to make within a matter of three or four weeks. There has been a widespread welcome for the proposals made in "Patients First" and a widespread expression of view that they should proceed with all due despatch so as to minimise the period of uncertainty. Those are matters which the Government are keeping carefully in mind.

Mr. Heffer

Will the right hon. Gentleman assure us that the statement by the Minister for Health is an inaccurate reflection of Government policy? Is he aware that his hon. Friend indicated an intention to bring a large section of the Health Service within the area of private health? Will he give an assurance that that is not true and that profits will not be put before the interests of the mass of the people?

Mr. Jenkin

The Government have never made any secret of their wish to try to bring more resources into the health care of the nation through the development of the private sector. The pace at which that will proceed will depend upon the willingness of people who are now subscribing in ever larger numbers through group schemes, trade union schemes provident funds and in other ways. It would probably not be right for the Government to attempt to set any target, except to say that we believe that these are making a valuable contribution that we hope to encourage.

Mr. Paul Dean

Now that the initial period of consultation is complete will my right hon. Friend press ahead as fast as he can so that the staff in the NHS will know where they stand? Will he take into account the strong view that there should be flexibility in the administrative structure, and that no one pattern of administration should be imposed on the whole country?

Mr. Jenkin

On the first point I hope that my hon. Friend welcomed our circulating to the Health Service a few weeks back the offer that had been made about staff protection terms, early retirement and so on which is currently under negotiation in a special committee of the general Whitley council. I think it has gone some way to relieve the anxieties of those who have been understandably concerned about what the future holds for them.

On the second point, "flexibility" is certainly one of the words that has occurred most frequently in the representations to us, and it is a principle that the Government warmly adopt.

Mr. Moyle

The right hon. Gentleman says that he does not want to set a target for private practice. Is he aware that his hon. Friend the Minister for Health did set such a target—

Dr. Vaughan

No.

Mr. Moyle

Yes, he did. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his hon. Friend said on television that he wants 25 per cent. of the health care of this country dealt with through private practice? Is the hon. Gentleman speaking for the Government or not? Further, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his hon. Friend announced a timetable for the reorganisation of the Health Service during the Report stage of the Health Services Bill? In view of the right hon. Gentleman's vagueness on that this afternoon, are we to understand that he has overthrown his hon. Friend's timetable and will produce another?

Mr. Jenkin

On the first point I must ask the right hon. Gentleman to await my statement, which will be coming shortly.

I watched the programme in which my hon. Friend took part. It was perfectly clear, in relation to what had gone before about fund raising, charging, private practice, provident funds and about the whole issue, that the question put to my hon. Friend covered the whole amount. Therefore, when my hon. Friend made the statement about 25 per cent. he was not particularly concerning himself about private practice—

Mr. Rooker

Yes. He was saying that he wanted 25 per cent.

Mr. Jenkin

Of course he was not. I suggest that the right hon. Member for Lewisham, East (Mr. Moyle) studies the script because it was perfectly clear that the answer covered the whole range of factors. No question of any time scale in this direction has ever been raised. These matters must be left to find their own level.