HC Deb 01 July 1980 vol 987 cc1277-80
2. Mr. Marlow

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will set up a study to identify what roles could be performed within his Department by a system of national community service based on a wide-ranging national voluntary scheme of one year duration for 16 to 21-year-olds.

The Under-Secretary of State for Heath and Social Security (Sir George Young)

No, Sir. I agree that young

categoric pledge to the doctors in 1978 that it would honour not only the three stages of the award to enable the doctors to achieve an up-to-date level, but that it would honour the recommendations of the Doctors and Dentists Review Body report. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will find an opportunity to explain whether he would have rejected the DDRB's recommendations in the circumstances of this year.

Mr. Orme

I would not have rejected them, but I should not have treated the nurses in a different manner, as has the Secretary of State.

Mr. Jenkin

I do not want to get involved in bandying figures at a sensitive time when discussions in the Whitley council are taking place this week. A number of clear commitments to the nurses were made by both parties. The commitments have been met in full.

Following is the information:

people greatly benefit themselves and the community by taking part in voluntary activities—particularly those relevant to the services of the Department. But I am sure that a study would show that their potential is best encouraged locally.

Mr. Marlow

Since the growing level of youth unemployment will give rise to many social problems, does not my hon. Friend agree that a system of national community work, starting with basic training and followed by various options, including options in the social field, would have a lot to contribute in dealing with the problems of our stretched resources in the hospital services, help for the elderly and looking after young people? Since the benefits, financially and otherwise, outweigh the costs, will my hon. Friend discuss the matter with his right hon. and hon. Friends with a view to making proposals later?

Sir G. Young

I agree with what my hon. Friend says, so long as such a scheme is voluntary. For that reason the Home Office voluntary service unit makes grants of £600,000 a year to several organisations which provide opportunities and work for young people. My Department has drawn the attention of health authorities and local authorities to the opportunities under STEP and the youth opportunities programme to encourage work for young people and provide services to the community. I shall draw my hon. Friend's remarks to the attention of my colleagues who might be able to help.

Mr. Kilroy-Silk

Does the Minister accept that community service orders have been successful for young adult offenders, particularly as a way of demonstrating the potential of a sentence which combines the element of punishment through the deprivation of liberty and with the ability to enable young people to perform constructive activities in reparation to the community? Will the Minister press within the Government for the scheme's extension to people under the age of 17? Will he also press for an extension of community service under the umbrella of intermediate treatment?

Sir G. Young

I agree about the effectiveness of community service orders which apply to young people over the age of 17. For many juveniles it is agreed that community work is appropriate and helpful. Schemes to promote such work operate in many parts of the country. I believe that the hon. Gentleman is thinking of making it compulsory for the under-17s, and that raises issues which cover my Department and the Home Office. Powers are already available for the courts to make intermediate treatment available where appropriate. My right hon. Friend and I attended a conference today and yesterday to encourage the development of intermediate treatment throughout the country.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

Will my hon. Friend give more positive thought to the request by my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, North (Mr. Marlow)? Does he agree that some form of voluntary community service for all young people between the ages of 16 and 21 years would be beneficial to the country? Is he aware that many young people would like to have the opportunity to serve the community, their fellow young people, the elderly and the handicapped but that the funds and schemes to enable them to do that are not available? Will my hon. Friend therefore, give more constructive thought to this reasonable request?

Sir G. Young

The work done by Community Service Volunteers is exactly the same as my hon. Friend suggests. It makes available to interested young people a wide range of jobs and opportunities in the community. Various Government Departments support the CSV generously with grants. I shall certainly see whether there is a way of organising that scheme centrally. However, the opportunity for service arises locally and local initiative is needed to harness the good will of young people.

Mr. Freeson

Is not the Minister missing the central point, however commendable are the other matters to which he has referred? Will he examine further, in conjunction with his Government colleagues, the question of paid service to the community? Is not it ridiculous that between £60 and £70 a week has to be paid out one way or another by way of lost revenue or actual payments to the unemployed when, if the funds were made available to local authorities and health authorities, it would be possible to establish a service on a paid basis—and not only for the 16 to 21 year-olds?

Sir G. Young

I do not dissent entirely from what the right hon. Gentleman says. However, the concept of paying volunteers has always raised tricky issues with the trade unions. They would have to be resolved before progress could be made in that direction.