§ 3. Mr. Chapmanasked the Minister for the Civil Service what is the total number of civil servants at the last date for which figures are available; and what is the number who retired or voluntarily transferred to non-Civil Service jobs in the last 12 months for which figures are available.
§ Mr. ChannonAt 1 October 1979,the latest date for which figures are available, there were 712,300 civil servants: of these, 552,000 were non-industrials and 160,300 were industrials. During the 12 months ending 30 September 1979, 63,000 non-industrial civil servants retired or voluntarily transferred to non-Civil Service jobs. No information is held centrally on retirements or voluntary transfers of industrial staff.
§ Mr. ChapmanApart from the Government's short-term commitment to reduce the number of civil servants, is there any long-term strategy? If so, would it be based upon permitting an intake each year of but a proportion of the natural wastage?
§ Mr. ChannonThat is an interesting idea which I shall certainly consider. The Government's long-term strategy is to try to reduce the role and functions of government in such a way that we can also reduce the size of the Civil Service as a 429 whole. But the Civil Service, of course, must do the job that this House sets it to do. We must have a number of civil servants for that purpose. The problem is to match what is required by this House in the most efficient and proper way.
§ Mr. EnglishDoes the Minister ever wonder how his Department gives him such precise figures when at the same time it refuses to define the term "civil servants"? Is it not true that the number of people paid either by the taxpayer or by corporations owned by the Crown and who receive inflation-proof pensions is about 7 million—one-third of the work force?
§ Mr. ChannonI believe that the number who receive inflation-proof pensions is about 5.5 million, including every Member of this House, the Armed Forces, teachers, nurses and everyone in the public sector.
§ Mr. MarlowMy hon. Friend says that he seeks rigorously to cut down the number of functions that must be performed by the Civil Service. Will he speak with his colleagues and ask them to speak with their colleagues in Europe to stop some of the damn silly regulations which arrive in this House late at night and which we then must process? Does he not agree that this causes more civil servants to be employed?
§ Mr. ChannonThat is a matter for the Foreign Secretary and I shall certainly draw his attention to my hon. Friend's remarks.