HC Deb 21 January 1980 vol 977 cc19-22
26. Mr. David Price

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what proposals he has to make to safeguard the 1979–80 level of Government support for the living arts during 1980–81.

The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Neil Macfarlane)

I refer my hon. Friend to the White Paper on the Government's public expenditure plans for 1980–81, published last November. This stated that direct central Government expenditure in support of museums, libraries and the live arts in 1980–81 should allow a continuation of activities at a level broadly comparable to what has been possible in the current year.

Mr. Price

Is my hon. Friend aware that the contribution from public funds in this country in support of the living arts is a great deal less than that in some neighbouring European countries? Therefore, will he ensure that that contribution is not eroded by inflation and that, in so far as it is, it is made up, because there is no fat left to be saved?

Mr. Macfarlane

I sympathise to a certain extent with the point made by my hon. Friend. However, I would not offer any guarantees or assurances this afternoon on the question that he has put to me. By comparison with other EEC members, we enjoy a great deal of commercial and industrial sponsorship for the arts which other countries have not worked up to such an effective level as we have.

Mr. Freud

Is the Minister or his right hon. Friend aware of the imminent departure by a British orchestra for Russia under an Arts Council grant?

Mr. Cormack

Bring it back.

Mr. Freud

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise the national credibility gap that is created by sending music to the Soviet Union now while treatening the withdrawal of sport later?

Mr. Macfarlane

I acknowledge the point made by the hon. Member for Isle of Ely (Mr. Freud). I shall certainly draw it to the attention of my colleagues both in Cabinet and Government. I am certain that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who is eminently aware of that point, will have taken due note of what the hon. Gentleman said.

Mr. Cormack

Does my hon. Friend agree that vast numbers of tourists are attracted to this country every year because of our arts and heritage? Does he also agree that little is to be achieved by candle-end economies in these departments?

Mr. Macfarlane

I think that I understand what my hon. Friend means by "candle-end economies". The picture is not as desperate as he paints it. He knows the importance that we attach to taking the arts to the rest of the United Kingdom, and we recognise the contribution that tourists have made to the arts. We hope that they will long continue to prosper in that way.

Mrs. Reneée Short

Is the Minister aware that to rely on commercial support for the arts is to rely on very frail support? Is he also aware that the chairman of Covent Garden in the annual report said that he cannot rely significantly on such support in future? If a prestigious company such as Covent Garden cannot rely on such support, what are the smaller, poorer companies in the provinces going to do to get commercial support? It is Government support that is needed.

Mr. Macfarlane

I certainly understand what the hon. Lady is saying. But she must appreciate that there are many sources which we should certainly exploit in Government. The previous Administration tried it and we intend to do he same. It is notable that a number of companies in the smaller communities in this country have begun to make contributions in the local regional arts context. I do not believe that the hon. Lady in her right mind—and she is fair and reasonable on these matters—would contend that is not a sensible suggestion. It is not our intention to build our entire support on such contributions. I agree that in some respects it might be frail support, but it is some support. The world of art, I am sure, would want to pay tribute to the many companies and organisations, both large and small, which have done such a tremendous job in recent years.

Mr. Ifor Davies

Is the Minister aware of the remarkable success of a recent visit by the Welsh National Opera Company to this city? Will he therefore ensure that the company, which does more than its fair share of touring, gets a fair grant?

Mr. Macfarlane

I endorse what the hon. Gentleman said. However, I think that I am right in saying that here was a classic example of industrial support from a well-known oil company. At the same time, I am sure that both my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Wales and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster were eminently aware of that tremendous success and contribution.

Mr. Buchan

Does the Minister accept that the argument that private patronage is any substitute for public support is complete nonsense? Above all, will he follow the example of his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster who has given as an example of what he means by private patronage—treating things as if they were his own, particularly the Cardinal Newman portrait?

Mr. Macfarlane

I shall address my response to the beginning of the hon. Gentleman's question. I do not accept the argument that private patronage is a nonsense. Far from it. It has made enormous contributions, and the campaign which we plan over the next few months is intended to expand it. The hon. Gentleman has not advanced a reasonable argument. I can only assume that he does not fully understand the contribution that has been made.