HC Deb 21 January 1980 vol 977 cc15-8
8. Mr. Coleman

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he will meet the chairman of the nationalised industries to discuss their operations in Wales.

9. Mr. Barry Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he proposes next to meet the chairman of the nationalised industries to discuss their operations in Wales.

13. Mr. Denzil Davies

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he will meet the heads of nationalised industries to discuss the operation of their industries in Wales.

Mr. Nicholas Edwards

Meetings are arranged whenever the chairman or I think necessary.

Mr. Coleman

Last week 10,155 workers in Wales from Port Talbot and Llanwern learnt that they would lose their jobs, while thousands of other workers in the coal mining industry are also to lose their jobs, as a result of decisions by the industries. Has the Secretary of State had any discussions at board level or at local level about those decisions? Will he urgently set up a task force to deal with what will be the most disastrous unemployment that Wales, in particular South Wales, has had since the war?

Mr. Edwards

The news of proposed reductions at Llanwern and Port Talbot was first announced before Christmas. Last week's announcement involves rather fewer reductions than in the earlier options that were being considered. I can confirm that the chairman of the British Steel Corporation came to see me before announcing the options that were to be favoured by the board. I have already made clear that the Government accept their responsibility to introduce remedial measures. Now that we have firm proposals from BSC we are considering the matter urgently.

I am not convinced that task forces are necessarily the best way to organise and co-ordinate. I was interested when I went to Shotton to have that view confirmed by representatives of the local authorities there.

Mr. Barry Jones

When he talks to the chairman of BSC, will the right hon. Gentleman strongly inquire about the likely fate of the BSC strip metal research centre at Shotton, where an investment of about £8 million and more than 100 jobs are likely to disappear? Can he obtain for me details of the likely compensation for the employees there, and find out whether the Americans are likely to gain the technological information that the centre has? Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the chairman that with the redundancies and allied job losses at Shotton now approximating nearly 8,000, that is an unacceptable figure.

Mr. Edwards

I shall certainly make inquiries of the chairman on the points that the hon. Gentleman has raised, and then write to the hon. Gentleman. I note the hon. Gentleman's last remark. He will appreciate that the future of the excellent plant that remains at Shotton very much depends on its ability to sell its products. I am sure that he will agree that industrial disruption can only be damaging to the plant's future.

Mr. Davies

Is the Secretary of State aware that the Government's plans for the steel industry, especially the unrealistic break-even point, will destroy the Welsh economy and turn South Wales into an industrial wasteland? Will the Government now raise that break-even point, so that the industry's problems can be looked at rationally and sensibly?

Mr. Edwards

It must be faced that the principal reason why the BSC management is producing its present plan is the need to be competitive in a world market and to sell steel. It is its assessment of the present market that leads to the conclusion that it has announced. I deplore the continued suggestion that, however difficult the decisions may be—I certainly do not underestimate the consequence—they will turn South Wales into an industrial desert. I do not believe that that is helpful. Going round many of the industrial sites in Wales and seeing the new companies coming in, and the successful companies operating there, I find that that is not a true picture.

Sir Anthony Meyer

Does my right hon. Friend agree that further to postpone the achievement of competitiveness by increasing subsidies will only lay further burdens on the very industries that should be coming in to provide replacement jobs?

Mr. Edwards

I am sure that that is right. I listened with interest to the views expressed last week in a long BBC broadcast in which the right hon. Member for Rhondda (Mr. Jones) took part and which included a recording of an interview with me. In that programme people from the continent of Europe and from America pointed to the action being taken there and the fact that overseas competitors were moving ahead of our industry the whole time. That emphasises the need to do at least as well as, and better than, our competitors overseas.

Mr. Wigley

Does the Secretary of State accept that, if there were an import embargo selectively on steel and steel products, as many as 25,000 jobs could be directly saved? Does he appreciate that the effect on, say, a washing machine would be only half of 1 per cent. on the retail price? Does he agree that that would be a reasonable price to pay considering the likely effect of these cuts?

Mr. Edwards

I do not accept that analysis. I believe that import controls would have disastrous economic consequences for this country. I urge the hon. Gentleman to read, if he did not hear, the speech on this subject by the right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) in the debate on steel, because the right hon. Gentleman seemed to me to put forward an overwhelming argument against the proposition advanced by the hon. Gentleman.

Mr. Alec Jones

If the right hon. Gentleman holds that view on selective import controls, will he explain why he wrote the letter to the Wales TUC saying that there was a time and a place when unemployment might be so high as to demand import controls? Surely, the figures that we have been given for steel and for coal indicate that the situation in Wales is not as helpful as the right hon. Gentleman seems to think, but is even gloomier than the Opposition fear?

Mr. Edwards

The letter written from my office, not by me, to the Wales TUC—[Interruption.] I am not arguing; I am just setting the facts right—did not indicate that the steel problem was appropriate for that kind of temporary control to meet a temporary situation, particularly in circumstances of unfair competition by other countries. That has been the position of successive Governments. The position taken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade, who made the detailed statement on which the letter from the Welsh Office was based, was wholly consistent with the action taken by British Governments over many years to deal with short-term distortions of that kind.

Mr. Coleman

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of those replies, I give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.