HC Deb 18 January 1980 vol 976 cc2070-4

11.6 am

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Humphrey Atkins)

With permission, Mr. Speaker, I will make a statement about the fatal bombing incident in Northern Ireland yesterday evening. Just before 6 o'clock yesterday evening, there was an explosion followed by a fire on a Ballymena to Belfast train in the vicinity of Dunmurry.

The explosion occurred in a carriage immediately in front of the engine, which was at the rear of the train. As a result, three people died and five others were injured and taken to hospital. The bodies of those who died are so badly charred that their identity can be established only by a process of elimination, and this is in hand. Of the injured, three were seriously burned and were detained in hospital. The explosive device used is believed to be of the blast incendiary type, and police inquiries into the incident are continuing. Up to the present moment, no individual terrorist organisation has claimed responsibility for the outrage. The possibility cannot be ruled out that the device exploded prematurely.

I am sure I carry the House with me in expressing my deep sympathy with those innocent members of the public who were injured and with the relatives of those who died. The incidents of the last three days have yet again brought home the utter callousness of the terrorists in their continued attempts to destroy the life of the Province. Last night's brutal murders and the attempted murder of many others have made this clear.

But, despite the terrorists' efforts, the bravery and dedication to duty of the people of Northern Ireland remains unshaken. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State who visited the scene of last night's fatal incident has told me of the courage of the staff of the Northern Ireland railways who dealt with two devices on two other trains which did not explode.

The people of Northern Ireland are determined not to give in to such cowardly attempts to intimidate them. Her Majesty's Government are equally determined to give them the fullest possible security backing.

Mr. Pendry

Will the Secretary of State accept that the Opposition join with him in expressing our regret at this very callous act, which may have taken innocent lives? We express our deepest sympathy with the bereaved and with those who were injured. We also appreciate the courage and vigilance of the railway staff who spotted the other bombs, and who no doubt saved other needless casualties.

Is the Secretary of State taking any special steps, particularly at railway stations and on trains in Northern Ireland, to exercise more diligence to prevent such incidents from occurring?

Mr. Atkins

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said, and, like him, I am anxious that security on trains should be at the highest possible level. It is always difficult to be certain about security on public transport.

One of the bombs that was found and did not go off was taken away by the Northern Ireland railway staff as the result of searching the train at its destination, which is common practice. However, we are looking urgently at the precautions taken by the railway authorities, because we want to do everything possible to make travel safe.

Rev. Ian Paisley

Is the Secretary of State aware that the people of Northern Ireland will appreciate his expression of sympathy on behalf of the House, and also that of the Opposition spokesman, on this tragedy and atrocity? Will he accept from me that we welcome the fact that he has made such a statement this morning? It is far better for him to make a statement than for a Northern Ireland Member to seek a debate under Standing Order No. 9 with the chance that the application will not be accepted. I trust that if there are further tragedies statements will be forthcoming.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the train was travelling from the heart of my constituency, bringing workers back to the centre of Belfast? All decent people in Northern Ireland are outraged. They are resolved that no escalation of violence by the IRA or other terrorist group will deter them from their determination to see the matter through and have peace restored to our troubled Province.

Further, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the time has come for security forces to move from a purely defensive role to an offensive one? They have reacted well to the atrocities, but they should now make the running and carry the battle into the heart of the IRA's territory.

Mr. Atkins

The House will have noted the hon. Gentleman's remarks, and I am glad to have his support for our determination to bring the evil to an end. I am always ready to come to the House and make statements if it seems appropriate, and I believe that it was on this occasion. However, the hon. Gentleman must not think that the operations of the security forces are entirely reactive; they are not. As the hon. Gentleman will know, there have recently been useful successes. I hope that there will be a great many more.

Mr. Churchill

Is my right hon. Friend aware that every hon. Member will wish to be associated with his message of sympathy to the families of the bereaved and, above all, to the heroic people of Northern Ireland, who have endured such acts of callous and wanton terrorism for far too long? Is he further aware that the overwhelming majority of the people of these islands demand that more effective penalties be found for the murderers and bombers who terrorise our cities and our fellow citizens in Northern Ireland, and that the overwhelming majority of people in this country favour a return to the death penalty for such acts of terrorism?

Mr. Atkins

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend has said about the determination in the United Kingdom to bring these troubles to an end. I also note his view about penalties, but we have to act within the law, and it was only recently that this House decided that the law relating to the death penalty should not be changed.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

On behalf of myself and the hon. Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Molyneaux), who has properly proceeded to his constituency, may we join in the sentiments expressed from both sides of the House? As the House regularly renews the power of detention, will my right hon. Friend dispassionately, and not under the influence of this latest atrocity, consider with Irish Ministers the possibility of very selective detention on both sides of the border, which has always been the way in which terrorist troubles in the island of Ireland have been brought to an end?

Mr. Atkins

My hon. Friend is right. The Act contains the power for selective detentions without trial. It has not been used since 1975, but I always consider how best to use the powers that the House has given me, and I take note of what my hon. Friend says.

Mr. Marlow

No doubt my right hon. Friend, like the rest of us, is keen and eager that the perpetrators of this vile deed and other similar deeds should be brought to justice as soon as possible. Does he therefore agree that that requires the greatest possible intelligence and information from the public as quickly as possible, and that there should be great efforts to secure that? When people are prosecuted, it is important that those who are guilty should be found to be guilty.

Does my right hon. Friend further agree that, since the introduction of the recommendations of the Bennett report, methods of interrogation in Northern Ireland have become more appropriate to interrogating a Surrey shoplifter rather than a hardened terrorist? There is a great deal of concern among those responsible for security that they can no longer obtain the intelligence that they could before the changes were introduced. Proving cases against violent terrorists is difficult when people are not prepared to come forward and testify because they are putting their lives at risk.

Will my right hon. Friend be kind enough to assure the House that he is looking in depth at those problems and, as soon as possible, will take steps to remedy the situation?

Mr. Atkins

I can tell my hon. Friend two things. First, as he says, the securing of evidence is not easy, particularly when witnesses may feel that they dare not come forward because of intimidation, but we are doing everything that we can to enlist the help of the entire community in finding terrorists and bringing them before the courts. It is not just a matter for the security forces, although they are very much in the lead. Everyone has a part to play in providing information and intelligence.

It is necessary to get convictions, and I am glad to say that we are getting a substantial number, either through confessions or other means. The number of people sentenced for terrorist offences is encouraging, but it is not high enough, and we want to get terrorists put away legally as quickly as we can.

Mr. Peter Robinson

Is the Secretary of State aware that, although the people of Northern Ireland will welcome his statement, the vast majority will feel that it is not enough and will be asking what new initiative he proposes to take? In recent weeks and months it has been clearly demonstrated that the measures are not adequate. What plans does the Secretary of State have to stop these atrocities?

Mr. Atkins

We debated the security situation for a full day just before Christmas. At that time I explained what the Government were doing, and at the end of the debate the House gave the Government its support. We are constantly looking for ways to improve our effectiveness, and I believe that we are making steady progress. I am looking again at all the means of protecting people in Northern Ireland. As I have said, the episodes yesterday on the trains require me to look again at the security situation on public transport, and I am doing so.