HC Deb 15 January 1980 vol 976 cc1419-20
9. Mr. Robert Atkins

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the current state of Great Britain's defences.

Mr. Pym

In the face of the growing military challenge from the Soviet Union, NATO has recognised the need to strengthen Alliance defences. The Government fully support these measures, and we are taking positive steps to improve the United Kingdom's contribution to the Alliance.

Mr. Atkins

When will we have enough forces and weapons to give support to the proposed rapid deployment force suggested by President Carter?

Mr. Pym

We are considering that matter with the United States, and acutely so in light of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. That is why the Foreign Secretary has gone on a tour of five countries which are affected by the invasion. As my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, said yesterday, Ministers are considering the matter both in the North Atlantic Council today and in the European Community. We have the matter actively under review with our allies.

Mr. Dalyell

Can the Secretary of State be satisfied in light of the statement made by the Under-Secretary of State for Energy on the continuing possible leakage of crucial information from Urenco at Almelo? In light of the Government's own implied criticism of the Dutch Government, what do they propose to do about it?

Mr. Pym

I am aware of the hon. Gentleman's concern in this matter. He is probably right in the sense that no Secretary of State for Defence, and certainly not this one, can be complacent about such a matter. It is serious, but there is nothing specific that I can say to the hon. Gentleman about it today.

Mr. Gordon Wilson

In view of the important external threats that have been mentioned, can the Minister say what was the point of the Army training forces at Camberley to combat non-existent insurgency in Scotland? Will the right hon. Gentleman take this opportunity to apologise to the Scottish people for the fact that they were singled out by the English establishment for such derogatory treatment?

Mr. Pym

I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman ought not to look to the BBC for an apology, if that is what he wants. Neither this Government nor any other have responsibility for what is put out in a programme or for the views expressed in that programme. The fact that consideration is given to the support of the civil power by the military ought to be well understood by the House in view of events in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Banks

Does my right hon. Friend agree that civil defence is part of Britain's total defence? Does he also agree that the subject has been seriously neglected for more than 10 years, and will he, therefore, consult the Home Secretary about conducting an urgent review of civil defence arrangements?

Mr. Pym

As my hon. Friend will recognise, that matter is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. The reduction in the effort devoted to civil defence a couple of decades ago flowed from the tripwire strategy. It was thought to be unnecessary to have any civil defence. That is why it has been at a minimal level. I know that my right hon. Friend is giving some consideration to that important matter, but I do not have responsibility for it.