HC Deb 30 April 1980 vol 983 cc1357-60
6. Mr. Bowden

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received about the difficulties of people on low incomes paying their water services charges.

The Minister for Local Government and Environmental Services (Mr. Tom King)

We have had a considerable number of representations both from hon. Members and members of the public. One of the principal representations is to consider introducing a rebate scheme for water services.

Mr. Bowden

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the public fury at the rate of increases of these water charges? Is it not totally illogical not to have a rebate scheme for water charges, particularly for the elderly, when a large part of those water charges is composed of sewerage charges which used to appear under the domestic rates, where they could qualify for a rebate scheme? Will he give urgent consideration to bringing in a scheme to help the elderly and those on low incomes?

Mr. King

I assure my hon. Friend that I am well aware of the concern. Knowing the constituency that he represents and the scale of the increase in that water authority, I well understand the representations that he is receiving. It is true that, before 1974, it was possible to get a rebate. Since then it has not been possible to get a rebate for sewerage services. Successive Governments have held the view that this is in the nature of a public utility and that the charges should not, therefore, be assisted in that way, but that help for low income families should come through supplementary benefit and other assistance that is possible. That is the position that the Government have supported.

Mr. James A. Dunn

Will the Minister have another look at the structure and representation of the regional water authorities, which seem less amenable to representation from the community than other comparable organisations? If there were more direct representations in the community, some of these problems would be resolved.

Mr. King

I am very concerned at the widespread feeling of a lack of accountability of water authorities. Those representations come through clearly to me. The majority on every water authority consists of councillors from local authorities in the area. It is disappointing that a feeling of accountability does not seem to exist. In many cases, people seem to be unaware of who their representative on the water authority is.

Mrs. Fenner

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Medway borough council, which has not increased the rate for four years, now sees its residents confronted with a 30 per cent. increase in the water rate? Has my right hon. Friend jurisdiction to investigate the serious local assertions that are being made about inefficiency in the accounting of the Southern Water Authority?

Mr. King

There is a question on the Order Paper on this specific point. Part of the problem of the Southern Water Authority was that it believed the previous Labour Government in their assertion about a 5 per cent. pay policy. My hon. Friend will recall that the increase last year was only 3 per cent. Of course, the authority found itself considerably disadvantaged as a result. I shall have further comments to make about the authority.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

I just heard the Minister say something about the previous Labour Government. Has not all this arisen because the previous Tory Government initiated this so-called programme? Are not all the troubles and problems that we have now—not 30 per cent., but 300 per cent.—due to the fact that the previous Tory Government were responsible for bringing in this change?

Mr. King

The hon. Gentleman is suffering from his favourite form of selective amnesia. He may have overlooked the fact that the Labour Party, which he more or less supported in that period, was in government for five years.

Mr. Hill

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the increases in the Southern Water Authority have been 135 per cent. since the time that it was set up? He must be able to monitor charges and to examine the management of the Southern Water Authority. Can he describe to the House the processes that he will be taking to make sure that these vast increases do not occur every year?

Mr. King

I have instituted a series of meetings—the first to be held by a Minister—with separate water authorities. The first authority that I saw was the Southern Water Authority in the shape of the chairman and the chief executive. I discussed with them my concern over the level of manpower and the increase that it had shown in recent years. I have received an undertaking that it will be reducing its manpower. I shall take a very close interest in the activities of the water authorities—something which Ministers in the previous Labour Government unfortunately failed to do.

Mr. Denis Howell

Is the Minister aware that, exactly as we forecast when he and his right hon. Friend introduced measures for the reorganisation of local government, the Health Service and the water service, the people of this country are now paying for four or five bureaucracies when previously there was only one—the local authority? That was the main reason why the previous Labour Government introduced a White Paper proposing changes, which the previous Tory Opposition refused to support. As he must know, this industry is capital-intensive. Is he further aware that interest charges arising from the Government's economic policy are five times more responsible than wages for these water increases?

Mr. King

That intervention is a classic example of what was wrong with the Labour Government. People cannot pay their water rates bills with White Papers. The inability of the previous Labour Government to tackle the problems which they felt arose out of the Water Act is their own condemnation. We are now taking positive action on this matter. As evidence of that and in view of the concern about the level of interest charges, my right hon. and hon. Friends may have noticed that among the first references to the new Monopolies and Mergers Commission, announced yesterday, is the Severn-Trent Water Authority. We shall then examine further water authorities and their efficiency.