HC Deb 03 April 1980 vol 982 cc630-3
3. Mr. Molyneaux

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he is satisfied with frontier security arrangements.

4. Mr. Biggs-Davison

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about security, with particular reference to the border counties.

Mr. Humphrey Atkins

Since I last addressed the House on 6 March, three people, including two members of the King's Own Border Regiment, have died as a result of terrorist activity in Northern Ireland. There have been a number of other attacks on members of the security forces, one of which resulted in serious injuries to a part-time member of the UDR and another yesterday in Crossmaglen to a soldier. But on two other occasions members of the RUC, having come under armed attack, warded it off and made red-handed arrests.

During the period in question the security forces have maintained their pressure on the terrorists. Forty-eight people have been charged with terrorist-type offences, including five with murder and 10 with attempted murder. Sixteen weapons and 891 rounds of ammunition have been seized as well as a substantial collection of bomb-making equipment, which has enabled the RUC to bring a number of criminal charges.

No one holding my office could be satisfied about security in the border areas as long as terrorists are active there; but I can assure the House that, although it would not be in the public interest to give details, the security forces use all possible means to counter the terrorists. What I can say is that we attach great importance to co-operation with the Republic of Ireland in efforts to neutralise the terrorists' use of the border. I am equally clear that the authorities in the Republic recognise this need, and I am glad to say that there has been considerable progress on this front. I am confident that this will continue to improve and that it will play no small part in the eventual suppression of crime in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Molyneaux

On the question of frontier crossings by vehicles, can the Secretary of State explain why the existing control legislation appears to have fallen into disuse? How many Customs stations have been moved back more than three miles from the frontier?

Mr. Atkins

The old system of checking vehicles crossing the border was gradually relaxed over a period of years because it became unwieldy, with the growth of legitimate border traffic. However, Customs and Excise, together with its counterpart in the Republic, has agreed to, and is now introducing, a new system of joint documentation that will monitor the cross-border traffic of vehicles. This is expected to come into operation very soon. I cannot, without notice, tell the hon. Member how many Customs posts have been moved back from the border, but a number of them were, chiefly in the interests of the safety of the staff.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

Will my right hon. Friend tender to the Ulster Defence Regiment our thanks and admiration now that it is 10 years old? On the border where the UDR has suffered many cruel casualties, are there enough troops to maintain public morale and also to prevent arms and land from falling into the hands of the IRA mafia?

Mr. Atkins

I know that the whole House will be grateful for what my hon. Friend has said and, indeed, will wish to support the early-day motion which he and his hon. Friends have put on the Order Paper in those terms. I know also that the Regiment itself will be very pleased at his expression of support, which I wholly endorse.

The second matter that my hon. Friend raised, about land falling into the hands of undesirable people, is a difficult one. I do not believe that this is happening in the way that some fear, but a question of morale is involved, especially in remote country districts. However, from every contact that I have with the UDR, I can see that morale is extremely high.

Mr. McCusker

Is the Secretary aware that this year four people have been killed within hundreds of yards of the border in my constituency? How good is co-operation with the security forces in the Republic, if such killings can occur with that regularity?

Mr. Atkins

I said in my original answer that I can never be satisfied as long as terrorists remain active in the area, and I am not. But co-operation is better than it was, and is still improving.

Rev. Ian Paisley

As many police have recently been moved to the border, do they have adequate weaponry to deal with terrorists, and have they had adequate training in the use of that weaponry? Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether the arms that were ordered from the United States are now available to the RUC?

Mr. Atkins

The arms that were ordered from the United States have been delivered. There is a requirement for a further supply of arms, though not immediately. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the RUC has all the weapons that it needs and, judging by the events of the past few months, it is clear that they are becoming increasingly skilled in the use of those weapons.

Mr. John

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that though we all agree with the hon. Member for Armagh (Mr. McCusker) in grieving over the frequency of killings, nevertheless one of the values of border operations that cannot be discussed is the deterrent effect of these operations? Secondly, does he agree that the arms find yesterday is a symbol that, although not perfect, the link and agreement with the Republic are working?

Mr. Atkins

Yes, Sir. The hon. Gentleman is right on both counts. The purpose of security forces is primarily to deter and to prevent crime, and I believe that they are succeeding slowly in this objective. Like the hon. Gentleman, I congratulate the Garda on its arms find yesterday. It will be another severe deterrent to terrorism.

Mr. W. Benyon

Is it not a fact that known terrorists are moving about the Province with impunity because there is unsufficient evidence to take proceedings against them? Has my right hon. Friend had discussions recently with the Law Officers to see whether any special legal procedures can be devised to take account of these special and exceptional circumstances?

Mr. Atkins

Yes, I have, and these discussions are continuing, but we have to move with great caution so long as the Government's policy is to operate within the rule of law. We are all determined that we should continue to do this, but if there are ways in which the law can be improved and yet not be regarded as unfair, we shall follow them.