HC Deb 20 November 1979 vol 974 cc196-8
9. Mr Dalyell

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what assessment he has made of the effect on departments of engineering and mining in universities of his decision to raise substantially the contribution of overseas students.

Dr. Boyson

Some fall in the total of overseas students is expected in the academic year 1980–81, but it is not possible to predict accurately how this will affect individual institutions, departments or subjects. My Department, with the help of the University Grants Committee, will keep a close watch on developments.

Mr. Dalyell

Could we hark back to the second question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, West (Mr. Price)? The Minister, inadvertently no doubt, did not reply to it. Is the Mininster saying—I do not wish to use the word "lying"—that the vice-chancellors and the engineering and mining departments are making a fuss about nothing? Is that the Government's attitude?

Dr. Boyson

Since we do not know how many foreign students, irrespective of their discipline, will be applying next September, it is rather early to be talking about a critical effect upon universities. If one refers particularly to the point raised by the hon. Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell), it is as well to remember that between 1971 and 1977 there was a drop in the number of home undergraduates on technology and engineering courses, while the number of incoming foreign students almost trebled. Over those six years there has been a one-third drop in the number of postgraduate home students and an increase of nearly 65 per cent. in foreign students. We now have more foreign students than home students on postgraduate technology and engineering courses. Although British universities have an international aspect, they are British institutions funded by this country, and we should be particularly concerned about the take-up of engineering and technological courses for British students.

Mr. van Straubenzee

Is it not a fact—curious though it may seem—that many vice-chancellors display a sense of being scared of the students over whom they preside? Does not that tend to lead them to be over-enthusiastic in joining student campaigns and so seeking to demonstrate that they are more Catholic than the Pope?

Dr. Boyson

It is difficult to add to that splendid observation made, by way of a question, by my hon. Friend. I entirely agree with him. It seems to me that the dog has barked even before it has seen the bone, or even before the bone has been taken away. It might as well wait and see what the situation is next year. It seems odd that, where there has been a threat of minor disorder in universities, the vice-chancellors have been immediately affected with it in their academic speeches.

Mr. Dalyell

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that I intend to bark about this matter on the Adjournment.