§ 17. Mr. Kilroy-Silkasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what progress he has made in establishing the new tough experimental regime at the two detention centres.
§ 23. Mr. Lathamasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether 1494 he will now give details of his proposals for a stricter regime in selected detention centres for persistent young offenders.
§ Mr. WhitelawThe pilot project will be established within existing legislation at New Hall, a senior detention centre in West Yorkshire for offenders aged 17 and under 21, and at Send, a junior detention centre in Surrey for offenders aged 14 and under 17. With full remission, the minimum period for offenders in custody will be eight weeks at New Hall and six and a half weeks at Send. All offenders from the relevant age groups and catchment areas will undergo the more rigorous regime unless they are physically or mentally unfit, or initially receive more than the minimum three months' sentence. The regime will place emphasis on brisk and constructive activities, discipline and respect for those in authority; there will be drill, parades and inspections. The project, which will be carefully monitored, will start in the spring of 1980.
§ Mr. Kilroy-SilkI thank the sergeant-major. Why does the Home Secretary laugh, particularly when, according to the medical officer at Send detention centre, who wrote an article in the latest issue of the Prison Medical Journal, the vast majority of boys who will be subjected to this regime are physically ill, mentally unstable and socially deprived? All the evidence available shows that these short sharp shocks, which have been used before, are a dismal failure. Does not the Home Secretary agree that it would be right and proper for him now to stop pandering to the law and order lobby? He should try telling the truth and involve himself in a constructive educational programme for dealing with juvenile crime, rather than engaging in this unnecessary barbarity.
§ Mr. WhitelawI did not laugh, and I do not accept what the hon. Member said. I intend to pursue constructive proposals for the treatment of young offenders, alongside this proposal which I believe is essential for some of the hardened young thugs.
§ Mr. LathamIs my right hon. Friend aware that the so-called law and order brigade represents about 95 per cent. of people in this country? We hope that he will proceed with these policies effectively and that he will take no notice of 1495 those whose suggestions have been singularly unsuccessful.
§ Mr. WhitelawWe intend to pursue these policies as an experiment. I wish to see how they proceed.
§ Mr. Merlyn ReesThe right hon. Gentleman is setting up two institutions as an experiment. Is he aware that we wish to know more about the experiment—the cost, staff, the training, and the types of young person covered by the scheme? In particular, we shall need information to enable us to make proper comparisons. If all the appropriate young people are put into two institutions, it will be impossible to compare these with other institutions. I disagree with what the Home Secretary is doing, but as this is an experiment, we have the right to full information.
§ Mr. WhitelawI accept the right hon. Member's last comment. The only significant addition to normal costs is likely to arise if it is necessary to increase the present staff. Decisions on this will be taken during the planning of the project. On the other points that the right hon. Member raised, we will do our best to meet his wishes and those of the House.