HC Deb 01 November 1979 vol 972 cc1476-8
Mr. Cryer

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. When hon. Members have risen throughout questions on the Business Statement, would it be possible for them to be called to put their questions, as has usually been the case? Unfortunately, this afternoon you said that you would call five or six hon. Members, although only three other hon. Members rose throughout the whole period. Will you try to exercise that judgment so that all hon. Members who have risen from the beginning are called? You will appreciate that today we have had two important statements, one on public expenditure and the other on business, on which many of us would have liked to ask questions.

When Back Benchers rise frequently but are not called, and when Front Bench spokesmen are called repeatedly, there is a certain amount of frustration, because, as you are acutely aware, Mr. Speaker, we are all elected on the basis of equality.

Mr. Speaker

I am not at all unsympathetic with regard to the question of Front Benchers. I do not like it when Front Benchers keep rising, because there is one spokesman on a given subject. However, I have called—I did it this afternoon—several Opposition spokesmen at different times to ask questions on their particular subject. At the same time, I discourage Front Bench spokesmen from rising too often, even at Question Time, because it means that I cannot call other Back Benchers.

Secondly, I do not think I do the hon. Member for Keighley (Mr. Cryer) an injustice when I say that on the last two occasions when he was not called he also raised a point of order. My memory is that each time I have not called the hon. Gentleman he raises a point of order. I can understand the frustration. All I ask the House to remember is that I have suffered that experience myself, fortunately in times past. It is impossible for me to guarantee that every day I shall call all hon. Members who rise, because I must exercise my discretion in the interests of the House.

Mr. English

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. At a certain point in the proceedings on the Business Statement you said that you would call six hon. Members from the Opposition Benches. Do I take it that we will now revert to questioning the Leader of the House?

Mr. Speaker

Perhaps I am not as bright as I should be. I cannot follow the hon. Member's point because I know that I called six hon. Members.

Mr. Sever

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I certainly do not challenge your undoubted ability to count. However, there was some doubt in the House, when my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton) raised his point of order, as to whether you had concluded questions to the Leader of the House. I am saying not that you were not aware of the situation but that many right hon. and hon. Members were not. Because of that, and in view of the fact that a second point of order was called from the hon. Member for Tiverton (Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop), I wonder whether you had noted that a number of hon. Members had sought to catch your eye in relation to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, Central. It seemed as though discussions on this point of order were ignored to some extent by virtue of your calling immediately a point of order on a different subject.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member probably heard me ask the hon. Member for Nottingham, West (Mr. English) whether his was a point of order on the same question. Before I turned to the hon. Member for Tiverton (Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop), I thought I had satisfied myself that there were no further points in relation to the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton). If I was under a misapprehension, I apologise.

Miss Richardson

Further to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, Central (Mr. Hamilton), Mr. Speaker. The question of the provision of seats for the press in Committees, and particularly in the Committee on the Abortion (Amendment) Bill in which there is widespread public interest, should not be taken as a sign that the public should be excluded. There was a reference either from you, Mr. Speaker, or from the Lord President that there might be seats for the press in the public part of the Gallery. Yesterday there were also members of the public who were excluded from the Committee because there were not enough seats. It would be a great pity if people who have taken the trouble to follow this Bill, and who have come, in many cases, all the way to London, should be denied a seat because the press are being given public seats.

Mr. Speaker

I am much obliged to the hon. Lady. Of course, people come to this House every day hoping to get in but are unable to do so. We must work within the limitations of the building. I assure her that those responsible are doing their utmost to try to help in this obviously difficult situation.

Mr. George Cunningham

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wonder whether, in your further consideration of the matter, you would bear in mind this suggestion. If we were talking about a Select Committee instead of a Standing Committee, the rigid distinction between the space available for the public and the press, and the space available for hon. Members, would not occur. They sit in the same sort of seats but some are in one place and some in another. The distinction between the space available in Standing Committee for public and press, on the one hand, and Members, on the other, is a barrier. It is there to divide the amount of room that is normally thought to be needed by each group. I do not see any difficulty in principle in simply altering the line between the space available for the two groups.

Mr. Speaker

I am obliged to the hon. Member. I am sure that his suggestion will be borne in mind by those who are trying to solve this problem.