HC Deb 29 March 1979 vol 965 cc600-1
1. Mr. Michael Spicer

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he plans to meet representatives of the Prison Officers' Association.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Merlyn Rees)

I met representatives of the Prison Officers' Association as recently as last night.

Mr. Spicer

Is the Home Secretary aware that the frustrations in the prison service are now so great that they are planned to explode into industrial action, from midnight on Sunday, which, if sustained, is bound to create riots in prisons up and down the country? Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether it was his personal decision not to publish an interim part of the May committee report on prison officers' pay?

Mr. Rees

On the latter part of the question, it was the decision of Mr. Justice May, who is in charge of the investigation. I agree with him. In reply to the first part of the question, this is involved in the Civil Service dispute. It is an overtime ban which, I agree, could have very bad results. But we shall have to wait and see what happens next week.

Mr. Kilroy-Silk

What on earth was my right hon. Friend doing meeting the prison officers last night? More importantly, does he not accept that it would help both prison officers and those for whom they have responsibility if there were a changed emphasis in their role away from the custodial to a more welfare-orientated function? Would it not be useful if the professional training and status of prison officers could be enhanced by further training so that they could involve themselves in welfare work with prisoners within prison and outside in places such as hostels and detoxification centres?

Mr. Rees

In reply to the first part of the question, I met the POA, as I have done a number of times recently, because it is my job to do so, in the context of some of the problems of the prison service. On the latter part, I think that there is a great deal in my hon. Friend's suggestion. Much is already done, particularly in some psychiatric prisons. This is a laudable ideal. It is not just a question of expenditure, but I hope for developments over the years. I know that the Prison Officers' Association has this matter very much in mind.

Mr. Lawrence

Can the Home Secretary explain why his Government have been such a mitigated success in relation to the prison service that the Prison Officers' Association is so utterly and completely dissatisfied with him?

Mr. Rees

When the hon. Gentleman relates his remarks in such a narrowly political aspect, there is no doubt that we are coming to an election. He will find that this matter extends back over a long period and is very complicated. It is concerned with the changed role of the prison service, the size of prisons and the number of violent people who are in prisons. It does not alter overnight. It is a deep-seated problem.

Mr. Alexander W. Lyon

Is not one of the ways of relieving pressure on prison officers to relieve the pressure on the numbers in prison by providing alternative methods of treatment? Could not something be done for the detoxification centre in South Leeds, about which my right hon. Friend will be well aware?

Mr. Rees

The centre is not in south Leeds, and I am well aware of that. Extra money has been provided, and money will need to be provided constantly over a period. Although it is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services, I believe that we can get through the problem if the methods now being used are changed. I want the detoxification unit in Leeds to continue.