HC Deb 28 March 1979 vol 965 cc432-5
1. Mr. Buchanan

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects next to meet the general secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen.

2. Mr. O'Halloran

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects next to meet the general secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen.

20. Mr. Cowans

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects next to meet the general secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen.

21. Mr. Bagier

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects next to meet the general secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen.

24. Mr. Rifkind

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects next to meet the general secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen.

The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. William Rodgers)

Fairly soon.

Mr. Buchanan

I understand that my right hon. Friend is meeting the general secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen soon. Will he take it from me that most railway men and people engaged in the transport industry are delighted with his announcement today that 700 miles of railway will not be closed? Will he make it clear to the House and to the country that Labour Party policy is not to run down the railways but, bearing in mind the conservation of energy encapsulated in the development of the railways, to encourage their development?

Mr. Rodgers

I appreciate what my hon. Friend has said. Unfortunately, Mr. Sidney Weighell has not been well for a little while. The House will wish him a speedy recovery from his illness. I shall see him immediately on his return to work, and certainly I shall make plain to him that there is no question of myself or any other Minister approving a mini-Beeching, of which there were reports earlier this week.

Mr. Cowans

When my right hon. Friend meets the general secretary of the NUR, will he take the opportunity to congratulate him on the running of the railways during the recent bad weather? Of the many transport systems that operate in the country, one of the few that was maintained was the railway system. Will my right hon. Friend also take the opportunity to commiserate with him on the deaths of four railway workers who died maintaining the service? Finally, will he take the opportunity to scotch the many rumours circulating about rail fare increases, by confirming that no approach has been made to him?

Mr. Rodgers

No approach has been made to me by the British Railways Board with a view to a fare increase earlier than January 1980. There will be no question of my approving such an increase at present. Obviously, it is prudent for the Railways Board to review its costs. I am sure that it would be damaging to the railways were there to be such an increase later this year.

I am sure than the House will share what my hon. Friend said about deaths on the railways. This is still a hazardous occupation for many people. Railway men deserve our fullest support in the problems that they face. I agree, as someone who travels frequently to the north of Britain, that the railways maintain their services magnificently in difficult circumstances, often when other forms of transport have come to a stop.

Mr. Bagier

When my right hon. Friend meets Mr. Sidney Weighell, will he discuss the good effort made by British Rail to expand travel facilities for old-age pensioners not only in this country but in conjunction with our colleagues in France, Spain and Portugal?

With regard to the closure of railway lines, does my right hon. Friend agree that subsidies are involved in running these services, and that we cannot run away from this fact? Will he therefore invite the Opposition spokesman on transport to say whether there would be a cutback in public expenditure affecting 700 miles of railways and other services in the unfortunate event of the Conservative Party coming to power?

Mr. Rodgers

My hon. Friend is quite right in saying that it is only substantial public expenditure which enables the railways to maintain many important services. I want to see the development of these services, rather than any suggestion that they should be cut. I stand precisely by what the Government said in their White Paper "Transport Policy" in the summer of 1977.

Under the leadership of the chairman of British Rail, to whom I pay tribute, we have seen an intensive and intelligent marketing effort which has increased the number of people travelling on the passenger services and provided advantages to those who otherwise would not be able to afford to travel.

Mr. Norman Fowler

Is the Secretary of State aware that the Opposition agree with him that there is absolutely no justification for another Beeching round of cuts? Does he accept that we agree with him that everything possible should be done within British Rail to avoid another heavy round of fare increases later this year? In that respect, does he accept that a big wage settlement would have the effect of pushing up fares and pushing passengers off the railways?

Mr. Rodgers

I am very glad indeed to have the hon. Gentleman's endorsement—which has sometimes been lacking in the past—of the future of the railways. He must accept, as I have done, that we can maintain and improve our railway system on the basis of an intelligent fare system and substantial help from the public purse. There is no other way. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that, obviously, the cost of running the railways must be reflected in the fares. I am sure that that will be borne in mind by everybody whose future lies with the railways.

Mrs. Knight

When the Minister sees Mr. Weighell, will he ask him to alter the NUR rule book so that willingness to work for the Socialist Party is no longer a condition of employment in British Rail?

Mr. Rodgers

I am afraid that I would not give such an undertaking. I do not think that it is a proper subject for the Secretary of State to discuss with the general secretary of the NUR. In any case, the hon. Lady's implication is not justified.

Mr. Roderick

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement on the suggested closure of lines. Will he, in addition to meeting the general secretary of the NUR, meet the chairman of British Rail urgently to impress upon him that we are not in favour of closing any lines whatever?

Mr. Rodgers

I think that the chairman of British Rail is fully aware, from my most recent conversations with him, of the view that I take about the suggestion that was given publicity earlier this week. There is a later question on the Order Paper about meeting the chairman of British Rail, and I shall refer further to the matter then.

Mr. John Page

At this meeting, will the Secretary of State be able to give the general secretary of the NUR any idea when the case at Strasbourg about the closed shop in the NUR is likely to be completed? Will the right hon. Gentleman ask Mr. Weighell whether he has any proposals, in the meantime, to change the ruthless application by the union of the closed shop in British Rail?

Mr. Rodgers

I do not anticipate these subjects being discussed.