§ 3. Mr. Dykesasked the Secretary of State for Employment when he plans next to have an official meeting with members of the Trades Union Congress to discuss employment problems.
§ The Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. Albert Booth)I plan to meet members of the West Midlands TUC on 4 April.
§ Mr. DykesI hope that the meeting will take place before then, but if it is even on 4 April will the right hon. Gentleman try to rehabilitate his flagging reputation—even though time is late—and press on the TUC the reasonable case for extending secret ballot procedures in unions for certain key issues where it is evident that the majority of union members would prefer such a procedure and its assurance of a private result? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the suggestion is not an anti-union move but, on the contrary, is a very pro-union suggestion?
§ Mr. BoothI understood that the original question concerned my discussing employment problems with the TUC. In so far as employment is affected by the practices of unions in balloting on questions of disputes or the election of officers, it is primarily a matter for the individual union. I am satisfied that following the talks between the Government and the TUC, which led to the recent agreement, the advice issued by the TUC on this matter is sound and will be heeded by affiliated unions.
§ Mr. HardyWhen my right hon. Friend next meets the TUC, will he be able to confirm that far more people are in employment today than was the case five years ago? Does he not think that the TUC will be far more appreciative of that achievement than of the job annihilation policies of the Conservative Party?
§ Mr. BoothOur statistics do not enable us to say how many are in employment, but they certainly show that employment has been sustained remarkably well through a serious world trade recession and that in March 1978 there were virtually as many people in employment in this country as there were when we came into office in 1974. If one counts the number of people employed in the youth opportunities programme and the special temporary employment programme, we have many more in employment today.
§ Mr. Charles IrvingDoes not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has missed many golden opportunities to increase incentives to work by reducing taxes? Is the Secretary of State proposing to have talks on 238 those lines with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if he is in office long enough to do so?
§ Mr. BoothOne of the many factors figuring in the discussions between the Government and the economic committee of the TUC in reaching the annual assessment provided for in the agreement between us is the effect of taxation on employment. I am satisfied that recent tax changes have helped in that direction.
§ Mr. LoydenWhen my right hon. Friend next meets the TUC, will he inform union leaders of the number of jobs lost in the private sector and the fact that, in many cases, that is frustrating the work of the Government in their job creation policies? Does he not agree that the Opposition made their position clear last week when they cynically remarked, during a discussion about unemployment on Merseyside, that there were no workers on Merseyside?
§ Mr. BoothIt will not be necessary for me to remind the TUC, since it is being constantly reminded by member unions of the serious problems faced by their members as a result of decisions of firms to have massive redundancies and to close plants in developments areas. If no other factor spurred the TUC to bring about the sort of policies that can be developed under our joint agreement, that factor would do so.
§ Mr. BrittanDoes the Secretary of State appreciate that many will be deeply distressed by his complacent remarks about unemployment? Is he aware that the 800,000 extra people who are unemployed today, compared with the number who were unemployed when the Conservatives left office, will listen to his complacent remarks with grave cynicism and deep disquiet?
§ Mr. BoothThe hon. and learned Gentleman has misrepresented me. I have never been complacent about the problem of unemployment and I and my fellow Ministers in the Department have been exceedingly active in developing policies to assist the unemployed. The people of this country have more to fear from the sort of change of policy that some of the hon. and learned Gentleman's colleagues have been advocating.