HC Deb 18 June 1979 vol 968 cc895-7
13. Mr. D. E. Thomas

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the total allocation his Department will be making to local housing authorities in the current financial year and for 1980–81.

Mr. Wyn Roberts

Local authorities' capital expenditure allocations in 1979–80 will total £123.1 million. This is net of receipts from the sale of council houses after taking account of any associated local authority lending. These receipts are estimated to total £2.2 million. If an authority obtains higher receipts than our estimates allow for, it will be able to spend more on its housing programme. Allocations for 1980–81 will be announced in due course.

Mr. Thomas

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that that represents a reduction in public expenditure resources for Welsh housing? Will he take time to read some of his own attacks on the appalling housing record of the previous Labour Administration during housing debates in the Welsh Grand Committee? How are the figures helpful to the 45,000 on council waiting lists in Wales and the 200,000 living in houses that lack adequate amenities?

Mr. Wyn Roberts

The effect of my announcement is that there will be no cut in the allocations announced in November 1978 if authorities sell houses in accordance with our estimate. If authorities are more successful in selling, there will be more money available for housing. I hope that authorities will take advantage of the scheme.

Mr. Kinnock

If local authorities sell houses, is not that a once-and-for-all addition to revenues? Does it not mean that a source of revenue is lost as those houses are lost? Will not that make it much more difficult for authorities to rationalise, control and develop their council housing? In view of the hon. Gentleman's interest in these affairs and of the Government's relationships with local authorities, will he tell us what will happen under the legislation and the guidance offered if local authorities refuse to implement Government policy on the sale of council houses?

Mr. Wyn Roberts

We hope that authorities will not take that line. If they do, we shall have to consider the matter. I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman that we are making life more difficult for local housing authorities. There will be a benefit for the taxpayer and the ratepayer. It will be a continuing benefit as houses are sold. We do not expect all the houses to be sold this year. The taxpayer will benefit in the sense that subsidies will be reduced. The ratepayer will benefit as maintenance will be reduced.

Mr. Best

Is my hon. Friend aware that the subsidy that has to be provided by the taxpayer and ratepayer on a modern council house is about £1,600? Does he agree that providing council housing is the most financially disastrous way of trying to help those most in need of housing?

Mr. Wyn Roberts

We are aware of the extent to which council housing must be subsidised. In answer to an earlier question it was made clear that there are those who are anxious to buy their own homes. All that we are doing is to give them the opportunity to do so.