HC Deb 13 June 1979 vol 968 cc428-30
32. Sir Derek Walker-Smith

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will take an initiative in the Council of Ministers to secure the incorporation in the renegotiated Lomé Convention of a provision to make observance of fundamental human rights a condition of receipt of aid.

Mr. Hurd

During the Brussels conference on Lomé renegotiation at the end of last month, the Community made plain to the African, Caribbean and Pacific countries its determination to see proper account taken of the question of human rights in the new EEC-ACP Convention. The Government will ensure that this position is maintained.

Sir D. Walker-Smith

That is satisfactory as far as it goes, but would it not be preferable to incorporate in the treaty a reciprocal obligation on EEC and ACP countries to respect in particular articles 3 to 14 of the universal declaration of human rights and make receipt of aid conditional on such observances? That would prevent the possibility of aid being given, for example, to regimes as openly contemptuous of human rights as Amin's Uganda.

Mr. Hurd

My right hon. and learned Friend is an expert—I think I would say the expert—on that subject. He knows that there are different ways of achieving the objective that we share. He also knows that the ACP countries find it difficult to accept proposals that appear to point the finger at them. In the last month or so there has been some progress in the negotiations. The matter came up again at the Council of Ministers in Luxembourg yesterday. We shall not lose sight of it, and I hope that an arrangement can be included in the outcome of the negotiations that will satisfy my right hon. and learned Friend.

Mr. Christopher Price

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if such a clause were inserted in Lomé it would give the Third world countries as much right to raise the behaviour of the British Government in Northern Ireland as we had to raise the behaviour of other Governments in the Third world? The basic principle of the Lomé Convention is that it is completely reciprocal and has no greater weight on one side than the other.

Mr. Hurd

We need not take particular notice of or give particular weight to that aspect.

Sir Bernard Braine

From now on, will it lie quite so easily in the mouths of British Ministers present and past to pontificate about human rights when on Monday this House forced a small community in the Pacific into a State to which they passionately did not want to belong?

Mr. Hurd

I was trying hard not to pontificate. My hon. Friend and, indeed, the House had their opportunity on Monday and reached that conclusion.

Mr. Rowlands

I recognise what the hon. Gentleman said, but should we not go further than his bland statement? The convention prevented the EEC from terminating all aid to Amin in the past year or so, and it can still give aid to despicable regimes such as that of Emperor Bokassa. There is much opposition and obstruction in the EEC to that provision because certain countries are supporting such regimes.

Mr. Hurd

The hon. Gentleman will remember that the Community managed to find a way of halting aid to Amin that was generally accepted as satisfactory. A distinction was made between certain kinds of aid which were short term and others which were long term. Nevertheless, it is because of the difficulty that arose that my right hon. and noble Friend and the Government are trying to find in Lomé II a better means of dealing with that problem, and I think that we shall succeed.