HC Deb 18 July 1979 vol 970 cc1764-5
11. Mr. Ron Lewis

asked the Minister of Transport what action he has taken to ensure the maintenance of fuel supplies for the public transport undertakings for which he has responsibility.

Mr. Fowler

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy has made clear to the House, all consumers of energy must play their part in meeting the target of a 5 per cent. reduction in demand. It should be possible for public transport operators to contribute to this saving without essential services being affected.

Mr. Lewis

Does not the right hon. Gentleman accept that the nation's need to cut back on oil consumption demands an increase in the use of public transport? Is it not the case that both British Rail and the National Bus Company have had to withdraw services as a result? Will he recognise that it is the job of the Government and not of the oil companies to ensure that there is essential fuel in the public sector? Will he take immediate action about it?

Mr. Fowler

If by "immediate action" the hon. Gentleman means that I should introduce some form of direction or rationing, I must tell him that that is not the Government's position; nor do I think that it should be. I know of the hon. Gentleman's interest in public transport systems. The present energy shortage, in its wider context, provides an opportunity for public transport to win new passengers. I know that both the chairman of British Rail and the chairman of the National Bus Company are conscious of the opportunity that the energy shortage produces for them.

Mr. Gummer

Does my right hon. Friend agree that in winning new passengers it is important that British Rail should not cut off old services? On the East Suffolk line, the opportunity afforded by these cuts has been taken to cut necessary services. Would it not be much more sensible to pressure British Rail to save fuel by properly organising the uses to which it is put rather than adopting a simple system of slashing services on lines that British Rail would rather like to close?

Mr. Fowler

I think that my hon. Friend is unfair when he says that British Rail is slashing services, because that is clearly not the case. A number of off-peak and non-scheduled services have been withdrawn. I will look at his case, but the House should recognise that British Rail has not had to do the amount of cutting that at one stage it thought necessary.

Mr. John Home Robertson

Would the Minister like to explain how those local authorities which have the responsibility for clearing snow during the winter can effectively apply a 5 per cent. cut in fuel consumption? How on earth can public transport function if the roads are not cleared?

Mr. Fowler

I do not think that that is one of the major problems at the moment.