HC Deb 10 July 1979 vol 970 cc245-7
9. Mr. Brotherton

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he has any plans to meet the Defence Minister of South Africa.

Mr. Pym

No, Sir.

Mr. Brotherton

In view of the great Russian threat in the Indian Ocean, does not my right hon. Friend think that such a meeting would be valuable, and does he not agree that the time has come to reactivate the Simonstown agreement?

Mr. Pym

I would not disagree with my hon. Friend's proposition that in due course such a meeting would be useful, but I should say that we have no plans at the moment for renegotiating the Simonstown agreement. Naturally, we are concerned about the presence of the Soviet Navy in such strength in the Indian Ocean, but that strength is, of course, balanced by allied forces, and it is an area, like many others, which we are keeping under constant review.

Mr. McNamara

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain what advantage there would be if we were allied with South Africa in trying to counter the Russian threat in the Indian Ocean? Secondly, will he take this opportunity to confirm that Her Majesty's Government have no intention of again selling arms to South Africa, for either internal or external use?

Mr. Pym

On the latter point, we have fulfilled, and taken the steps necessary to fulfil, the United Nations resolution on that subject. I did not speak about being aligned with South Africa in naval matters. I made no proposal of that kind, but it seems to me to be a possibility for the future that I might at some moment meet my opposite number there. But I have no plans to do so at the moment.

Mr. Cyril D. Townsend

Although I, personally, should doubt the wisdom of going back to Simonstown, will my right hon. Friend make clear that, in principle, the Government would be willing to share maritime intelligence with the South African Navy and also to carry out training with the South African Navy?

Mr. Pym

That is a matter which I should certainly be prepared to consider, although I think I am right in saying that the South African Navy has given no indication that it particularly desires such an exchange or co-operation of that kind.

Mr. Hooky

Will the right hon. Gentleman take it that his statement that he has no intention of meeting this gentleman will be very welcome, at least on these Opposition Benches, but will he make clear also through the appropriate channels that the military connivance of South Africa with the illegal regime in Rhodesia is a hostile act to this country and will bring down reprisals on South Africa?

Mr. Pym

On the first point, I did not say that I had no such intention. I do not actually have immediate plans to do so. I do not think that in a matter of defence and the protection of our sea routes one ought to exclude a conversation at some stage on that subject. The point raised in the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question is a matter for my noble Friend the Foreign and Common-wealth Secretary.