HC Deb 05 July 1979 vol 969 cc1542-5
10. Mr. Peter Robinson

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what plans he has to make progress towards the re-establishment of a devolved, democratic Parliament and Government in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

15. Miss Maynard

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he intends to take a political initiative in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

17. Mr. Canavan

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects next to meet leaders of the political parties in Northern Ireland.

Mr. Humphrey Atkins

As was stated in the Gracious Speech, the Government's aim is to seek an acceptable way of restoring to the people of Northern Ireland more control over their own affairs. I do not think that this is best pursued by political action of a dramatic kind. The arrival of a new Government, with a full parliamentary term ahead of them, has itself changed the situation. I have begun talks with the leaders of parties representing a wide range of opinion in Northern Ireland, and I intend to continue these talks in a determined search for a satisfactory way forward. This is an initiative in itself, and it has already begun.

Mr. Robinson

In view of the Secretary of State's comment to the House on Monday that solutions can best be found by the people of Northern Ireland, is he prepared seriously to consider establishing a convention in Northern Ireland, with the result of that convention to be put to the people by way of referendum?

Mr. Atkins

I am not yet persuaded that this would be a helpful step to take. At present there seems no reason to suppose that a new convention would produce proposals any more acceptable—either in Northern Ireland or in this House—than the 1975 convention.

Miss Maynard

Is the Secretary of State aware that next month the British Army will have been in Northern Ireland for 10 years, yet the bloodshed, slaughter and killing still go on? The only good thing about which we can rejoice is that we have seen the end of Stormont. Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it is high time that some political initiative was taken to try to solve this intractable problem, for example, by meeting the parties in Northern Ireland and the representatives of the Government of the Republic? Whether it is dramatic or undramatic political action, I believe that some political initiative should be taken.

Mr. Atkins

In my main answer I attempted to get across to the House that an initiative is being taken. I am taking it. I believe that patient negotiation, with a determination to move forward, is the best way of achieving it. I am talking to leaders of all political parties in Northern Ireland, and I hope very much that between us we can make progress towards what we all want, which is more control in Northern Ireland, by the people of Northern Ireland, over their own affairs.

Mr. Canavan

Will the Secretary of State give a categorical assurance that the Government will reject any proposal that the problems of Northern Ireland can be solved simply by more military oppression and a return to the old Stormont system of government? Will the right hon. Gentleman try not to be too influenced by the fact that some of the most extreme elements of the Unionist extremists have chosen to sit on the Government Benches?

Mr. Atkins

It is no longer a matter for me where hon. Members sit in this House. I assure the hon. Gentleman that there is not a solely military solution to this problem. The British Army needs to be present in the Province as long as the police require the Army's support to maintain law and order. It will remain there as long as that is necessary. However, I quite accept that there is no purely military solution. That is why I am having these political discussions with party leaders.

Mr. Biggs-Davison

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on ruling out the sort of instant initiative that leads to disheartening fiasco. Will he start the process of reviving local democracy by examining the functions of district councils and the composition of statutory boards?

Mr. Atkins

Yes. This is one of the ways in which progress could be made, but it is not the only way. There are a great many others. In my discussions, which I intend to continue, my object is to find progress that is generally acceptable. Unless we can find a way forward which is acceptable to the people of Northern Ireland, whether they be of the majority or minority population, that is not progress. Therefore, it is with that in mind that I am having these continuing and private discussions with the leaders of political parties.

Mr. J. Enoch Powell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all political parties which enjoy any significant electoral support in the Province are represented in this House, and that he can and should maintain constant contact and consultation with those parties and their leaders in this House?

Mr. Atkins

Yes.

Rev. Ian Paisley

Will the Secretary of State tell the people of Northern Ireland today from the Dispatch Box that the internal affairs of Northern Ireland are a matter between the Government, this House and the people of Northern Ireland and have nothing to do with negotiation with the Dublin Government?

Mr. Atkins

The future of Northern Ireland is a responsibility of the Government and this House. I made that clear in my discussions with the Government of the Republic when I was there last week, and that is wholly accepted. Of course, they are interested in what happens, but the responsibility remains here.

Mr. Fitt

With regard to acceptability, does the Secretary of State recall that it was the malpractice which took place in local authorities throughout Northern Ireland which was largely responsible for the birth of the civil rights movement? Will he accept from me that any attempt to grant further powers to the existing local authorities in Northern Ireland will be fiercely resisted by the minority population?

Mr. Atkins

The hon. Gentleman's question illustrates most clearly that the answer to this problem is not all that simple.