HC Deb 04 July 1979 vol 969 cc1361-3
11. Mr. Ernie Ross

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give £3.5 million to Tayside regional council to build a new Ardler high school in Dundee.

Mr. Alexander Fletcher

The hon. Gentleman will know from our recent correspondence that the regional council has decided to withdraw this proposed new school temporarily from its financial plan while various options for future school provision are considered.

Mr. Ross

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that the Tory-controlled Tayside regional council deliberately underspent its capital education expenditure allowances for the past three years up to March 1979 by £1,584,000, half the amount that it would take to build Ardler high school? That is in a region where £57,000 has been removed from the financial plan for 1979, a sum which should have been used for the initial design work for Ardler high school.

Mr. Fletcher

Is the hon. Gentleman aware—

Mr. Cryer

Is the Minister asking a question of my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross)?

Mr. Fletcher

Yes; I am asking whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that the cuts to which he refers were requested by the previous Labour Government and the previous Secretary of State for Scotland.

Mr. Peter Fraser

Does my hon. Friend recognise that the education authority of the Tayside region is facing a real problem and that there are already considerable priorities, such as Arbroath high school and other schools in Perthshire, to which it has to give its urgent attention?

Mr. Fletcher

We shall consider carefully any proposals that the regional council makes to us.

Mr. Harry Ewing

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that he has grossly misled the House? What he has said is totally without foundation. My hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross) said that there had been an underspend and not a cut in public expenditure. I ask the Minister to withdraw his statement.

Mr. Fletcher

Such underspends might arise for various reasons and as a result of various actions. I do not think that the hon. Gentleman can deny that his Government introduced drastic cuts in expenditure, including local government expenditure.

Mr. Ewing

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Mr. John Mackay.

Mr. Ewing

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker

I shall take points of order after Question Time.

Later—

Mr. Ewing

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. During an answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross) on question No. 11 the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland—the hon. Member for Edinburgh, North (Mr. Fletcher)—advised my hon. Friend that the reason that the Ardler high school in Dundee had been withdrawn from the building programme was not that the Tayside regional council had underspent, in a period of three years, about £1 million of its education budget, but cuts in public expenditure imposed by my right hon. Friend the former Secretary of State and those of us who were in the previous Government. I challenged the Minister at the time and advised him that he had misled the House and that he ought to withdraw his statement. He declined to do so.

I put it to you, Mr. Speaker, and, through you, to the Minister, that, in view of the reply that the Minister gave to my hon. Friend yesterday, 3 July, giving all the details that I have indicated, he should now withdraw the statement that this was due to cuts in public expenditure.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman has been a Member of the House for a long time. [An HON. MEMBER: "Hear, hear. Too long."] Order. It is official. None of us has been here "too long", or I should be getting anxious. The hon. Gentleman knows that he cannot address a question to the Minister through me on a point of order.