HC Deb 22 February 1979 vol 963 cc597-8
1. Mr. Michael Spicer

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many mentally abnormal people are currently detained in prisons.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Dr. Shirley Summer-skill)

On 31 December, the lastest date for which figures are available, there were 519 persons held in prison department establishments who were considered by prison medical officers to be suffering from mental disorder of a nature or degree warranting their detention in hospital for medical treatment under the Mental Health Act 1959. Of these, 389 were serving a sentence.

Mr. Spicer

Does the Minister accept that many people believe that that figure is too low and the the real figure is about 1,000? But whatever the exact figure, it is too high. The prison service is completely incapable of providing adequate medical facilities for these people, and the reason behind it is that there has been a scandalous—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Gentleman must seek information rather than give it. If he can put his remarks in the form of a question, it will be helpful.

Mr. Spicer

Does the Minister accept that the reason behind this high number of mentally ill offenders in prison is that there has been a scandalous under-pro-vision of regional secure units, and that although the Government have allocated money it just has not been spent?

Dr. Summerskill

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern about people in prison who should be being treated in hospital under the Mental Health Act. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services continues to urge regional hospital authorities to set up more regional secure units, and 10 out of the 14 hospital authorities have submitted firm proposals for units. These are now under way and should be established in the early 1980s.

Mr. Christopher Price

Did my hon. Friend see the recent "Tonight" programme on television which gave some examples of the use—and sometimes grave misuse—of drugs on mentally disordered offenders in prisons? Does she accept that one way to allay disquiet on this issue would be to take the prison medical service into the National Health Service, so that the standards laid down in the National Health Service about training, equipment, and so on, could be guaranteed within the prison medical service?

Dr. Summerskill

My hon. Friend raised this on the Adjournment, and in reply I spoke at great length on the whole subject. I recommend that he reads my speech in Hansard.

Mr. David Howell

Can the Minister confirm that this whole subject is being looked at in the present inquiry under Mr. Justice May? Can she also confirm that it is still expected that the final report of that inquiry will reach us by the target date of March, as originally intended?

Dr. Summerskill

I understand that a parliamentary question on that matter was answered yesterday, and that the reply was that it was expected to receive the report in the summer.

Mr. Kilroy-Silk

Does my hon. Friend accept that the prison department not only says that it is inhuman to keep such persons in prison but also adamantly refuses to make proper arrangements for their appropriate medical care and treatment? Surely this is the responsibility of the Department of Health and Social Security, which has failed to provide regional secure units? Perhaps some pressure could be brought to bear on that Department, if the full economic cost of keeping such persons in prison was charged to the Department of Health and Social Security, and if we legislated to ensure that courts could remand mentally disordered offenders to named hospitals.

Dr. Summerskill

This has always been considered jointly between the Home Office and the Department of Health and Social Security. I have already referred to the measures that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services is taking to set up these units.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I intend to move faster on the other questions.