Council of Ministers (Hansard, 14 February 1979)

§ 42. Mr. Loyden
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects to meet Foreign Ministers of the EEC.

§ 44. Mr. Hicks
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he hopes next to attend a meeting of the EEC Council of Ministers.

§ 46. Mr. Cryer
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects to meet EEC Ministers.

§ 47. Mr. Skinner
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects to meet EEC Ministers.

§ 53. Mr. Roy Hughes
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he next expects to meet EEC Foreign Ministers; and if he will make a statement.

§ Mr. Judd
My right hon. Friend expects to meet his EEC colleagues next at 1126 the Foreign Affairs Council in Brussels on 6 Mareh.

§ Mr. Loyden
Will my hon. Friend advise his right hon. Friend that the House is very concerned about the balance of detente, particularly the relationships of the United Kingdom and other European countries with the Soviet Union? Will he give an assurance that this country will continue to strive for detente to restore the balance that may have been affected by the recent visit of the Chinese Vice Premier to the United States?

§ Mr. Judd
I assure my hon. Friend that, within the context of political cooperation, members of the Nine take very seriously co-ordination of their approach to CSCE talks. We are already looking keenly at what will come on to the agenda at the next formal round in Madrid. We believe that the success of those talks will depend on the effectiveness of the preparatory work before that formal meeting takes place.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
I shall call first those hon. Members whose questions are being answered.

§ Mr. Hicks
Will the Minister confirm that he intends to raise again with his EEC counterparts the vexed question of the renegotiation of the EEC common fisheries policy? Will he confirm to the House that there will be no sell-out of essential inshore fishing interests as part of a wider EEC package deal?

§ Mr. Judd
The next discussion will be at the Fisheries Council due to take place on 19 February. I assure the hon. Gentleman, and, indeed, the whole House, that there is no question of a sell-out on this issue. Equally, we are convinced that it is possible to find an effective common policy which preserves and protects the undeniable rights and interests of the British fishing community, always remembering that 60 per cent. of the common fish stock will come from British waters.

§ Mr. Cryer
Does my hon. Friend accept that our membership of the Common Market so far has been an unmitigated disaster? When he meets the Ministers on 6 March, will he make plain to them that we ought to be able to remedy the 1127 £2.5 billion deficit with other EEC countries by imposing import controls against other EEC members, unilaterally if necessary? Will he give an assurance that he will come to the House with an amendment to the European Communities Act to enable this Parliament and the Labour Government to decide whether EEC rules and directives apply in this country and so assist in restoring to this Parliament and a Labour Government the power of making economic decisions in this country?

§ Mr. Judd
As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made clear, we see the way ahead in the context of membership of the Community within our obligations, as they stand, under the treaties. We believe that a great deal can be done to mobilise common sense and rationality in overcoming the undoubted faults and failures that exist in the life of the Community.
On the specific question about trade, my hon. Friend is well informed and has had recent experience. I ask him to remember that our overall trade performance with those countries that are now members of the Community was not as impressive as we would have liked before accession. There is no great evidence that it has deteriorated as a result of membership. In fact, the export to import ratio has marginally improved.

§ Mr. Skinner
Has the Minister noticed that in the last few weeks a number of Tory MPs have been making remarks about the Common Market that are not altogether complimentary? One is forced to the conclusion that, as we get nearer to direct elections, they are orchestrating an argument, which they hope the electorate will accept, in terms of being slightly less pro-European than they were at the time of Britain's entry. Will he tell the Common Market leaders that he fully supports the NEC direct elections manifesto which says that if there are no fundamental reforms in that Assembly we shall seriously consider—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The question is getting very long. The hon. Gentleman is giving information instead of seeking it.

§ Mr. Skinner
The Common Market has been a long argument, and it is one that will go on for a long time—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman is right, but he must still ask the question as briefly as he can.

§ Mr. Skinner
Will the Minister tell the Common Market leaders that there is a lot of resentment over Britain having to pay £20 for every man, woman and child in this country towards the Community budget while low-paid workers in hospitals and local government are finding it difficult to get off the poverty line?

§ Mr. Judd
On the issue of contributions to the Community, we believe that there is a need for a thorough overhaul of the basis on which these are calculated. We believe that as the second highest net contributor to the common budget we are being asked for more than our fair share. While we are in this predicament, we have every right to speak out strongly on the reforms that we believe necessary. Of the reforms needed in the financial area, the highest priority is reform of the common agricultural policy.
I have a certain sympathy with my hon. Friend over the forthcoming direct elections campaign. Listening to the speeches of some of those who may be involved, it sounds as if it may be rather a coy dance when it takes place. We have to get across clearly to the country, in advance of those elections, that the future of the Community, as we see it, will be based upon the accountability of the Council of Ministers to this House and Houses like this throughout Community member countries.

§ Mr. Walters
Does the Minister agree that progress towards peace in the Middle East is very slow? It is beginning to become apparent that the Camp David triumph was not quite the triumph that it seemed. Will he discuss with his European colleagues whether the time is not approaching when Europe should take some initiative, bearing in mind the disastrous consequences to Western Europe if peace is not established?

§ Mr. Judd
The hon. Gentleman will recall that during our presidency of the Community we were able to define the common position of the Nine towards the Middle East. We must keep this issue constantly under review. The way forward is to build on the developments 1129 that have been achieved and envisaged in the Camp David context, recognising that these have to be seen as part of an approach to an overall comprehensive settlement.

§ Mr. David Steel
When the Secretary of State next meets the EEC Ministers, will he be able to give them an unqualified assurance that the Government party in this country will be conducting the direct elections on the basis of contributing to the continuing political and economic development of the Community?

§ Mr. Judd
I very much hope that everybody involved in these elections will be looking for ways in which we can mobilise the people of the Community to establish the right priorities in the interests of ordinary men, women and children of the Community and not just remote technicalities, and to make this a live human campaign about issues relevant to ordinary people.

§ Mr. Grocott
Does my hon. Friend agree that it is pointless making robust statements about the threat to British interests under the OFP, the CAP and contributions to the Community budget because these statements will be treated with derision by other member States unless he makes plain what he intends to do if our legitimate requests are not met?

§ Mr. Judd
With great respect to my hon. Friend, we have first to demonstrate some self-confidence as a nation that we can mobilise support in the Community behind our priorities. We are already making progress. I find it extraordinary that hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House sometimes fail to recognise the considerable progress made by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in stemming this incredible—and endless, as it appeared over the years—rise in food prices, which will only serve to build up wickedly wasteful surpluses in nobody's interest. We are making progress. Let us mobilise support behind that progress.

§ Mr. Amery
Will the Minister or his right hon. Friend draw the attention of his colleagues in the European Community to the declarations by leaders of the Iranian Government, just recognised by us, that they intend to withdraw from CENTO, to restructure the oil industry and to cancel a number of contracts con- 1130 cluded with European countries, and to the fact that all those matters have far-reaching implications for Western Europe, and indeed for the West as a whole? Will he further draw their attention to the sacking of the American Embassy in Iran and the murder of the American ambassador in Afghanistan and make it plain that these developments constitute a potential threat to peace in the central Asian area? Will he, before these discussions take place, take the opportunity, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Cambridgeshire (Mr. Pym) has suggested, of taking the opinion of the House on these matters?

§ Mr. Judd
I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will be relieved to know that already this week, on Monday, there were Community discussions evaluating the consequences for individual members of the Community and the Community as a whole of what has happened. The common objective of the Community is to work together with the people of Iran for a stable future for that country, which will be in the interests not only of the people of Iran but of the international community as a whole.

§ Mr. George Rodgers
Does my hon. Friend agree that major reforms of the Common Market will not be achieved without the consent of all members, and that, since members' interests are in conflict, it is obviously impossible to achieve it by persuasion alone? Is it not the case that the only weapon we have is to demonstrate that in that circumstance we are prepared to withdraw?

§ Mr. Judd
If we constantly parade the threat of withdrawal from the Community that undermines our influence within the Community, because those who are then expected to listen to our arguments do not listen to them on their merits. They listen to the argument of someone who is saying "Either we get our way or we withdraw." I believe that there is much evidence that if we use the power of rational persuasion and argument we can mobilise support behind our priorities.

§ Mr. Hurd
Returning to the Minister's earlier answer about our contribution to the budget, will he confirm that the main reason why our contribution to the EEC budget has soared when expressed in pounds, as the hon. Member for Bolsover 1131 (Mr. Skinner) expressed it, is that the Government have allowed the pound to sink by 30 or 40 per cent. compared with the main European currencies?

§ Mr. Judd
I think that the hon. Member is misleading the House. Of course inflation and devaluation have an impact, but the fact remains that we are the second largest net contributor to that budget. That is an unfair burden on the British people.

§ Mr. Cryer
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I reserve the right to raise the matter on the Adjournment—and I am a Member who has been here.