PRIME MINISTER (ENGAGEMENTS) (Hansard, 13 February 1979)

§ Q2. Mr. McCrindle
asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 13 February.

§ The Prime Minister
In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.

§ Mr. McCrindle
Although the Prime Minister did not say so, am I correct in understanding that this morning he entertained His Royal Highness at No. 10 Downing Street? May I express my pleasure at the fact that this has been done but inquire whether this was an open-dated invitation or whether the Prime Minister insisted that it had to be now for fear that later this year the person greeting him would be my right hon. Friend?

§ Mr. Speaker
I did not hear the beginning of the hon. Gentleman's question. If I had, I would have pulled him up. It is not customary to make such references in questions.

§ Mr. MacFarquhar
Will my right hon. Friend, with reference to comparability and relativity, give consideration to the 954 way public sector wages are settled? Will he take up with the Trades Union Congress the inadvisability of continuing a system whereby wages are settled by different bodies at different times when they should be settled altogether in an integrated manner to avoid constant leapfrogging?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes. This is a great problem. In my discussions and those of other Ministers with the TUC, we have covered this matter. I believe that there is growing agreement that some continuing arrangements are required in order that we should be fair to those who are employed in the public services. At the same time, we should avoid leapfrogging claims. My own view—I have not yet got full agreement to this—is that some body is needed to analyse what is taking place and, as soon as we can get agreement, to deliver its views on what is necessary in these matters. I warn Conservative Members that one must proceed by agreement.

§ Mrs. Thatcher
As there have been tragic events today in Rhodesia which will have engaged the Prime Minister's attention, may I take the opportunity to put to him two brief questions?—[HON. MEMBERS: "There is a PNQ."] Indeed, there was a PNQ on former President Bhutto last week, but that did not prevent the Prime Minister from answering at Question Time. Is the Prime Minister aware that we on this side of the House wholly and utterly condemn the callous act of the Patriotic Front in shooting down a civilian aircraft with the loss of 59 lives, some of them British as well as those who were Rhodesian? May I also ask the Prime Minister what is his policy regarding democratic elections in Rhodesia on 20 April? Is he aware that the result of the Rhodesian referendum was one of the most heartening results for a long time—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The right hon. Lady must be heard.

§ Mrs. Thatcher
Is the Prime Minister aware that the result of the Rhodesian referendum, which gave actual proof for the first time that the white Rhodesians welcome and wanted black majority rule was one of the most heartening we have had for a long time? What arrangements is he making to secure—

§ Mr. Buchan
On a point of order—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. There can be no point of order now. I will take it at the end of Question Time.

§ Mr. Buchan
With respect—

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman knows our custom. He is only wasting Prime Minister's Question Time. I will take his point of order at the end of Question Time.

§ Mrs. Thatcher
What arrangements is the Prime Minister making to ensure that those elections are held in as peaceful conditions as possible? Will he send observers from this country?

§ The Prime Minister
As regards the tragic news from Rhodesia today, there can be no excuse and no sympathy for those who shoot down a civilian airliner. It is a barbaric act, the latest of a series of barbaric acts which I regret to say have not been confined to one side. There is strong evidence to this effect. It is no use blinding ourselves to this fact. Her Majesty's Government appeal to both sides to avoid civilian atrocities by whoever they may be committed.
It is our view that the best way forward is for the leaders of the internal settlement to get together with the leaders of the Patriotic Front in order that they should put an end to this war that is taking place. I know of no way of ending this war unless there are conversations and negotiations between both sides. It is clear that neither side has the capacity to secure a victory in this situation. That is why both sides of this House should be encouraging all of them to come together in discussions.
As regards the question of elections, it will be for the House, if it wishes later, to take a view on whether it wishes to send observers to elections, if, indeed they are held. But it is certainly not within the power of the House or of the Government, as the right hon. Lady knows, to ensure that those elections are peaceful.
On the last point, I note, if I may, that the practice in relation to private notice questions seems to have altered within the last week or two.

§ Mr. Newens
Between his engagements today, my right hon. Friend must have been considering developments in Iran. 956 Will he make clear that many of us who utterly deplore the torture, executions and repression of the previous regime wish the new regime well but hope that it will base its policies on a respect for human rights which was conspicuously absent from the Government of the Shah?

§ The Prime Minister
Whatever expectations any Opposition Members may hold, I believe that we all share my hon. Friend's hope that the new Government will accept their obligations to ensure that human rights are properly observed in Iran. Her Majesty's Government have today asked our ambassador in Tehran to make contact with the new Government of Dr. Bazargan and to say to him that we look forward to establishing good relations with the new administration. This constitutes an act of recognition on the part of the United Kingdom Government of the Government of Iran.

§ Mrs. Knight
Will the Prime Minister spend some time considering the serious implications of a report issued today by the British Chamber of Commerce in France warning of the severe loss of British exports to France because of constant delays, price rises and other difficulties connected with industrial unrest? Can the Prime Minister do anything about this situation? Is he aware that France is our third biggest market?

§ The Prime Minister
On the question of price rises, I am glad to have the hon. Lady's support for the Government's fight to keep inflation down. I wish that it had been expressed a little more practically by her voting for us when the Price Commission Bill was going through the House. As regards the question of exports, I agree with what the hon. Lady said. I expressed last week the great concern felt by the Government about the interruption to our exports which resulted from industrial action during January. There must be a very big effort to overtake the delays that occurred then and to ensure that we do not lose orders.

§ Mr. Buchan
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As you know, it is rarely that I try to interrupt Question Time, but, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister remarked, there has been a change of practice in relation to questions to the Prime Minister when they are followed by a private notice question.
957 Last week, we were faced with the possibility of a tragic event occurring and a statement from the Prime Minister was obviously vital. The whole House accepted that. On this occasion, we are to have a private notice question dealing with a tragic event that has occurred. That event cannot be pre-empted by a statement by the Prime Minister.
Even apart from the general precedent, it has been the custom that when such a private notice question is put down, all hon. Members, including the Leader of the Opposition, are able to ask questions. It seems to be an abuse of Question Time when advantage is taken of that situation, especially given the length of the right hon. Lady's question, which took the form of a statement. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to reconsider that position.

§ Mr. Faulds
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Does the hon. Gentleman really believe that he is going to help the House?

§ Mr. Faulds
Yes, Mr. Speaker. I am eager to help the House in this matter of the abuse of some of its practices. It is clear that in the old days the Leader of the Opposition would have come in on the private notice question. Her action today is yet another glaring example of what has happened because of the introduction of microphones. As the House knows, I have been opposed to the introduction of these things since the inception of the scheme. We have seen yet another glaring example of what happens when they are introduced. Before we agreed to the broadcasting of the House, the right hon. Lady would have waited for the PNQ to make her point and would not have come in on Prime Minister's questions. She wanted her point of view to be broadcast.

§ Mr. Speaker
There is no doubt that microphones, like telephones, are a mixed blessing. As for the questions that the right hon. Lady asked, they are her responsibility and not mine.