HC Deb 07 February 1979 vol 962 cc374-6
6. Mr. Knox

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied with the workings of the Scottish liquor licensing laws.

Mr. Harry Ewing

Generally speaking, yes, but misuse of alcohol remains a most serious problem in Scotland, and my right hon. Friend has expressed his concern to licensing boards about the operation, in some areas, of the provision on regular extensions to permitted hours.

Mr. Knox

Will the Minister confirm that convictions for drunkenness have declined since the law was liberalised in 1976? Will he take this opportunity to advise his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary of the great improvements which have accrued to the people of Scotland because of the liberalisation of the licensing laws and suggest to him that similar advantages could come to the people of England and Wales if the English and Welsh laws were liberalised?

Mr. Ewing

Far be it from me to get involved in a battle between England and Scotland, but I can confirm that drunk driving offences have indeed decreased since the new Act was introduced in 1976. No doubt my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary will note what the hon. Gentleman has just said in his supplementary question.

Mr. Robert Hughes

Although, naturally, we are pleased that the number of offences concerned with drink has been reduced, will my hon. Friend keep a very close watch on the matter? There are public houses which open at 9.30 in the morning and remain open all day. While it may be that drunkenness, as reflected in offences, has declined, might it not be that the consumption of alcohol overall has increased? Does he agree that that ought to be taken into account?

Mr. Ewing

We set up a survey before the new licensing Act was introduced, and the survey continued after its introduction. We are just analysing the early results from that survey, and therefore I do not have any evidence to suggest that the consumption of alcohol has increased. But the fears of my right hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hughes) are rightly expressed, and my right hon. Friend and I will keep a close watch on developments as time goes on.

Mr. Thompson

In view of the increase in the practice of having bar lunches in Scotland, has the Under-Secretary of State made an estimate of the extent to which publicans and hoteliers have been willing to use the possibility of providing facilities for people to take children with them and to enjoy a bar lunch separate from the public bar?

Mr. Ewing

This is one of the great disappointments of the Act. When it was introduced it was hoped that publicans would set up separate facilities so that children could be taken there. Our information to date is that only two establishments—one in Aberdeen and, I think, a provisional one in Kirkcaldy—have attempted to take advantage of that provision in the Act.

Mr. Rifkind

Does the Minister agree that the Edinburgh licensing board has been frustrating the intentions of Parliament by not insisting on an afternoon break, except in exceptional circumstances? What does he intend to do to try to ensure adherence to the original purposes which Parliament had in mind when passing this legislation?

Mr. Ewing

It was not only Parliament which had the original purpose in mind. It was also the licensed trade. When we were putting this legislation together it was our intention to make the afternoon opening or closing discretionary. At the request of the licensing trade we made it mandatory. Now, lo and behold, we find a host of establishments represented by the licensing trade applying for all-day opening. My right hon. Friend has issued a circular to licensing boards expressing our concern about what has been happening in these applications.