HC Deb 07 February 1979 vol 962 cc380-2
10. Mr. Younger

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total number of people on industrial training courses in Scotland at the latest convenient date.

Mr. Gregor MacKenzie

On 31 December 1978, 6,200 people were on training courses provided or supported by the Manpower Services Commission in Scotland. These figures do not include the very large number of people on training courses and schemes organised by industrial training boards or by employers as part of their normal training provision.

Mr. Younger

Will the Secretary of State confirm that, despite those figures and exceptionally high unemployment, a large number of employers are still unable to get the skilled labour they require? Does not that suggest that the present arrangements are not working? Will he, therefore, expand the training done in private industry, with Government assistance, to make sure that the right people are trained for the skills needed?

Mr. MacKenzie

I wrote to the hon. Gentleman not very long ago on this subject and indicated that we were concerned about certain skill shortages in Scotland. This is a matter that my right hon. Friend and I have discussed with the Manpower Services Commission. Reports from the Commission indicate that it is conscious of the difficulties and is bringing in future programmes to deal with particular skill shortages.

Mr. Henderson

Is the Minister satisfied that we are getting value for money for all these courses? Is he aware that some people going on these courses and training, for example, as boilermakers, are subsequently unable to get employment because they cannot get union cards from the boilermakers' union?

Mr. MacKenzie

The example cited by the hon. Gentleman is not known to me. Of course, we appreciate that it is frustrating for young people trained in particular skills not to be able to get jobs. We all understand the economic difficulties. But I repeat that, with the help of the training services division of the Manpower Services Commission, we have been able to identify particular skill shortages and the House can be assured that the MSC will be putting on courses suitable for these groups.

Mr. Buchan

Is there not a great contrast between the effort and money put in by the community to bring about training and the failure by private industry to expand in this direction? Is not this another example of failure to invest properly in British industry? Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is disgraceful in view of the record profits some companies have been making during the past few years of wage restraint?

Mr. MacKenzie

Individual companies could do a bit more, but the Manpower Services Commission has been helpful to individual employers who want to train their people. I understand that in December 1978, 6,239 people in Scotland were taking part in such courses. We are working with the industrial training boards and with private companies to provide the best possible training.