HC Deb 06 February 1979 vol 962 cc188-90
5. Miss Joan Lestor

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the number of schools registered as charities.

The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Miss Margaret Jackson)

I regret that it would not be possible for the Charity Commissioners readily to identify the total number of school charities from the 126,000 registered charities, but I understand that there are likely to be either registered or excepted charities in respect of, or associated with, the majority of the 8,000 maintained voluntary schools and the 2,300 independent schools.

Miss Lestor

Does not my hon. Friend agree that it is high time that the Treasury, the Home Office and certainly her Department looked at the whole question of registration of educational establishments as charities and distinguished between those catering for a certain need in the education system and those like a certain school in my constituency where the parents argue for the right to pay for their children's education but expect to be subsidised by the State?

Miss Jackson

I entirely accept the last point made by my hon. Friend. As she will know, the Treasury, the Home Office and my Department have been considering these matters at length and for some time. Sadly, it has not so far proved possible to do what she suggests.

Mr. Stokes

Will the Minister come to the defence of the public schools, which have made such a great contribution to our national life, particularly in terms of leadership which is, at present, needed in all walks of life?

Miss Jackson

No, Sir, I will not come to the defence of our public schools.

Mr. Christopher Price

Is my Friend aware that the Charity Commisisoners, giving evidence to the Select Committee a few years ago, said that it was not right for charitable purposes to be applied to those areas where the State provided? They used roads as an example. Will she discuss with the Charity Commissioners those schools which have such a narrow intake from such a narrow band of society to see whether they are properly charitable in terms of the criteria that the Commissioners set out for the Select Committee?

Miss Jackson

I take note of what my hon. Friend says. I will certainly pursue that point.

Mr. Anthony Grant

Will the Minister confirm that nothing will be done to damage these excellent establishments in view of the fact that their facilities are so widely used by prominent Socialists in our society?

Miss Jackson

I know of no prominent Socialist who uses the facilities to which the hon. Gentleman refers. It is not a matter of whether the schools would be damaged. It is a matter of whether they should be subsidised by the State.

Mr. Carlisle

Further to the matter put by my hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen and Stourbridge (Mr. Stokes), does not the Minister realise that the present Labour Government have been the best recruiting sergeant that the independent sector of education has ever had? Will she confirm that any attempt to remove the private sector of education would cost the taxpayers £150 million in additional teaching costs alone, and would also be contrary to the United Nations and the European Declarations of Human Rights?

Miss Jackson

I must tell the hon. and learned Gentleman that overall numbers in independent schools are still falling. I must also tell him, as I have informed his hon. Friend, that we are discussing whether the State should subsidise people who wish to send their children to public schools. I believe that we should not.