HC Deb 13 December 1979 vol 975 cc1514-6
7. Mr. Adley

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will call for a report from the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis on the costs to public funds involved in the Labour Party and Trades Union Congress march in London on 28 November; and if he will make the report available.

Mr. Whitelaw

No, Sir. As I said in my reply on 3 December to questions by the hon. Member for Ogmore (Mr. Powell) and my hon. Friends the Members for Preston, North (Mr. Atkins) and for The Wrekin (Mr. Hawksley), the cost could be calculated only at disproportionate expense.

Mr. Adley

If organised groups indulge in activities of the sort that require a massive police presence—be they political rent-a-mobs or Manchester United—does not my right hon. Friend think that the organisers and not the taxpayers should be asked to pay the bill? As more than 4,000 police were on duty on that occasion, does not my right hon. Friend at least think that Transport House should make some contribution towards the public purse?

Mr. Whitelaw

I can see the attraction of that proposal, but it is important to appreciate that one cannot say that the responsibility for any disorder always lies in the first instance with those who organise or participate in the event. That is an important point which one must accept. At the same time, I should like to add that I appreciate that that particular demonstration was organised very well, that it required a lot of police, but that it went off peacefully. That is to the credit of those who organised it.

Mr. William Hamilton

Does the Minister agree that it is a vital right of the individual to march and protest, preferably in the peaceful and organised way in which this march took place? I was on that march, and I marched side by side with the hon. Member for Chichester (Mr. Nelson). He made an important speech against the Abortion Bill from the plinth in Trafalgar Square, and it went down very well.

Mr. Whitelaw

Far be it for me to comment on a speech that I did not hear from my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr. Nelson) about the Abortion Bill. Of course the hon. Gentleman is perfectly right. Everybody has the right to protest—it is an essential part of our freedom. However, those who march must appreciate what their action means for the police. They are using massive police resources and removing police from many other areas where, no doubt, they could be employed dealing with criminals and looking after people's property.

Mr. Marlow

Is my right hon. Friend aware that when the Barbarians rugby team came to this country from South Africa that cost the rugby authorities several thousands of pounds, the local authorities several tens of thousands of pounds and Mr. Peter Hain absolutely nothing except the cost of his train fare? As Mr. Peter Hain set out with the intention of disruption, will my right hon. Friend comment on whether people like him should be forced to pay for some of the disruption that they cause?

Mr. Whitelaw

One gets into difficult country when one starts arguing about who should pay. We should all accept that when we put a major responsibility on the police in a given area they are employed there and not in other areas where many of us feel that they would be of more use.

Mr. Merlyn Rees

Accepting the universal view that the right to demonstrate is vital in this country, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that in the march that has been referred to 4,000 policemen were employed who need not have been? It was a judgment that quite properly had to be taken, just in case. If all marches were carried out in the way that this one was, there would be no need for 4,000 policemen.

Mr. Whitelaw

Like myself, the right hon. Gentleman has had considerable responsibility in this area. He appreciates that the Commissioner has to make a judgment. He will be the first to agree that the Commissioner cannot afford to take any risks. He must provide the police in case something goes wrong.