§ 14. Mr. Nicholas Wintertonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what was the total number of crimes committed during the past 12 months for which figures are available (a) against the person and (b) against property in the whole of the United Kingdom and the North-West.
§ Mr. JohnSince regional breakdowns of criminal statistics are published only for the calendar year, the latest readily available 12-month figures are for 1977. In that year the police in England and Wales recorded 103,503 indictable offences against the person and 2,533,014 against property. The corresponding figures for the North-West region were 12,966 and 360,518 respectively.
§ Mr. WintertonIs the Minister aware that in the years since the last war—during which time the major parties in this House have shared power equally—indictable offences under Socialist Administrations have risen twice as fast as under Conservative Administrations? Does he accept that this is because the creed of Socialism does not believe in a property-owning democracy or in the rights of responsible and civilised individuals?
§ Mr. JohnFor the first time I now know who writes the"Peter Simple"column. The hon. Gentleman may be interested to know that in the past year offences against the person in Cheshire went down by 1 per cent. Is that not a 687 great triumph for the Labour Government?
§ Mr. WintertonCheshire is Tory-controlled.
§ Mr. James LamondIs my hon. Friend encouraged in his work by the fact that the crime rate in the greater Manchester area has fallen sharply, particularly in respect of the number of murders?
§ Mr. JohnThe figures for crime fluctuate wildly from year to year. I do not believe that there are any simple solutions to this problem, nor any easy and cheap triumphs to be got. The rate of increase in the crime figures in the past year has been very small.
§ Mr. StanbrookIs the Minister aware that, according to figures published by his own Department, 83 per cent. of reported burglaries in the London area are never cleared up? [AN HON. MEMBER:"Those areas are Tory-controlled."] Perhaps I should add that this figure has been about the same for the past 10 years. Although it might not be right to say, on the basis of those figures, that there has been a breakdown of law and order, was it not absolutely right of Sir Robert Mark to draw attention to these grave matters?
§ Mr. JohnTo draw attention to the matter is one thing, but Sir Robert's opinion of the facts that he disclosed was contradicted by the present Commissioner. The average clear-up rate in England and Wales is 78 per cent. for offences against the person and 37 per cent. for offences against property. In the North-West, which featured in the original Question, the figures are 82 per cent. and 42 per cent. respectively.
§ Mr. LoydenWill my hon. Friend resist the erroneous argument that has been presented by the Opposition—namely, that the reason for increasing crime rates lies in whether control is in Labour or Conservative hands? Does he agree that the correlation between crime and unemployment, bad housing conditions and bad environments is a more important factor? We should be tackling the solutions to these problems to reduce crime in the areas so affected.
§ Mr. JohnI need no encouragement from my hon. Friend to dismiss as con- 688 temptible the argument that the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winter-ton) tried to put forward. It is too reminiscent of Saatchi amp; Saatchi to be true. The various conditions to which my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Garston (Mr. Loyden) referred play a part in the crime rate. However, I should be chary of placing all the blame for the crime rate on unemployment. It is my experience that a number of those who have advantageous material conditions are nevertheless prone to crime.