HC Deb 13 November 1978 vol 958 cc12-5
12. Mr. Adley

asked the Secretary of State for Industry if he will make a statement on the criticisms levelled at the work of his Department's Warren Spring laboratory concerning measures to combat oil pollution, as made in the Select Committee report on the "Eleni V" affair; and what steps he is taking to ensure that less reliance is placed by the laboratory on the use of detergents.

The Under-Secretary of State for Industry (Mr. Les Huckfield)

The Government will reply to the Fourth Report of the Select Committee on Science and Technology—"Eleni V"—in the normal way. I should prefer at this stage not to anticipate that. The laboratory is concentrating on oil recovery systems which, if successful, will reduce reliance on detergents.

Mr. Adley

Was it not ironic that, at the same time as consternation was being expressed about the seal cull off the Orkneys, off the Welsh coast seal pups were dying because their mother's milk was poisoned by the effect of the detergent used in the "Christos Bitas" incident? On the latter point, is the Minister aware that two and a half years ago I brought one of my constituents to see his former Department of Industry colleague, Lord Melchett, to discuss the development of technology being pioneered by a company in my constituency, the end product of which was that, one year ago, one of the senior civil servants at the Department left the Department and has now set up in opposition, with an American company, to my constituent's technology?

Mr. Huckfield

Warren Spring has received widespread praise for its conduct in connection with the "Christos Bitas" affair, including from the Welsh Office.

As regards the hon. Gentleman's other allegation—I wish that he would be rather more measured in his references to Warren Spring—and his accusation that information has been wrongly used and divulged, it appears from what I can see that the information to which the hon. Gentleman has referred is freely available and widely published. If the hon. Gentleman is now saying that there is some kind of further information about which my Department is not aware, I hope that he will get in touch with my office—

Mr. Adley

I have already asked for a meeting.

Mr. Huckfield

—so that we can arrange a meeting to have the discussion in the way it should be conducted.

Mr. Warren

Whilst declaring no interest in this question because of nomenclature, may I ask the Minister to expand his reply to my hon. Friend's question? He said that Warren Spring laboratory was carrying out research into methods of recovering oil at sea. Is he aware, however, that in evidence to the Select Committee it was stated that no such research projects were planned in the years 1978 to 1980 in the plans approved by the requirements board of his Department?

Mr. Huckfield

I should prefer not to anticipate the Government's reply to that Select Committee report. The experience which Warren Spring has gained and is already applying has been widely praised, and much of the work which it is doing in various areas has been internationally acknowledged as being in the forefront.

Mr. Emery

Does the Minister realise that the House will not accept that guidance should not be given to Warren Spring. now rather than waiting for the report to ensure that in the total budget for Warren Spring a greater proportion is spent on matters concerned with oil recovery and the problems of pollution at sea, which are of major concern to so many people around the coasts of this country?

Mr. Huckfield

If the hon. Gentleman has any specific proposals, I shall, of course, be pleased to hear from him. But I think that he may be misunderstanding the role of Warren Spring. It does not have a direct operational role. It has an advisory and research role. I stress that much of the work that it has already done is widely acknowledged internationally as being right in the forefront.

Mr. Fell

Nevertheless, will the Minister continue to rely on the use of detergents, which have been shown to have some effect, until such time as there is something really effective to replace them?

Mr. Huckfield

I recognise that the hon. Gentleman is trying to be helpful in this matter, but it all depends on what kind of oil it is. If it is light oil, detergents or other methods are available for dealing with it, and other methods are being studied. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will recognise that if it is heavier oil there are many more problems.

Mr. Adley

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adojumment at the earliest possible opportunity.

Later—

Mr. Adley

May I raise a point of order, Mr. Speaker? I apologise for seeking to do so. During Question Time the Under-Secretary of State for Industry, in trying to answer a Supplementary Question of mine, said that I should seek a meeting with him or his colleagues if I wished to pursue the point. He was either unaware of, or was not mentioning, the fact that I have sought such a meeting with the Minister of State, Department of Industry. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, may I ask the point I am now making be recorded in the Official Report at the appropriate place, after the exchange of questions?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman's point of order will appear in the Official Report, because he has just spoken, but, on an afternoon when we are sensitive about time, I cannot guarantee that I shall put the clock back.