HC Deb 23 May 1978 vol 950 cc1316-7
7. Mr. George Rodgers

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what recent consultations have taken place with a view to providing alternative employment opportunities for those people who have lost jobs following adjustments to the defence programme.

Dr. Gilbert

Some overall loss of employment opportunities has inevitably resulted from reductions in the defence budget. It is not possible for the Ministry of Defence to provide alternative job opportunities in the defence industries within the present agreed level of defence spending.

Mr. Rodgers

Is my right hon. Friend acquainted with the procedures that took place in the United States in the wake of the Vietnam war, when the Government concentrated attention, funds and resources upon those areas that were deprived of defence employment? As a consequence, in many cases those areas are now extremely prosperous, due to alternative work. Is he further aware of the corporate plan produced by the Lucas shop stewards, which again shows great enterprise and points the way in which we could devote our resources and energies to civilian production, thereby creating employment as well as prosperity?

Dr. Gilbert

I am aware of both the matters to which my hon. Friend alluded. With regard to the Royal Ordnance factories and the dockyards—the defence procurement activities for which the Minister of Defence is directly concerned—there is no shortage of employment in either. In fact, they are fully loaded for some years ahead. The conversion of activity on the part of private firms is very much a matter for them.

Mr. Kenneth Lewis

Does not the Minister of State agree that if the Government would stabilise the defence programme and not keep cutting it there would not be so many jobs lost and the structure of advancement for people employed in the industry would be all the better?

Dr. Gilbert

It may have escaped the hon. Gentleman's attention that the Government have announced a 3 per cent. increase in the defence programme.

Sir Ian Gilmour

Will the right hon. Gentleman now give up-to-date figures showing how many jobs and job opportunities in the Services and in civilian life—in industries and elsewhere—have been lost by the defence policy of the Government?

Dr. Gilbert

The right hon. Gentleman is fully aware of the up-to-date figures of the job loss in both cases. As I have told his hon. Friend the Member for Stretford (Mr. Churchill) on many occasions, it is not the function of defence expenditure to provide employment as such. Defence expenditure is related to the necessary requirements of the defence of this country.

Sir Ian Gilmour

The right hon. Gentleman should answer the question. I quite agree that it is not the function of defence expenditure to provide jobs, but I asked how many jobs have been lost. What is the answer?

Dr. Gilbert

I have absolutely nothing to add to the answers which I have already given the right hon. Gentleman on that subject.