§ 1. Mr. Skinnerasked the Secretary of State for Energy when he next expects to meet other EEC Energy Ministers; and if he will make a statement.
§ 13. Mr. John Evansasked the Secretary of State for Energy when he next intends to meet the EEC Energy Ministers.
§ The Secretary of State for Energy (Mr. Anthony Wedgwood Benn)I will next meet other EEC Energy Ministers at the Energy Council scheduled for 30th May, when the Council is expected to discuss proposals for supporting intra-Community trade in steam coal, demonstration projects for energy saving and alternative energies, and hydrocarbon exploration the problems of the refining industry, and the Community's energy policy objectives for 1985. I hope that we can have a wide-ranging discussion. These issues raise important matters of national interest which must be dealt with by Ministers.
§ Mr. SkinnerPerhaps my right hon. Friend will try to get the EEC Energy Ministers to buy more British coal instead of importing it from third countries.
Will my right hon. Friend continue to stand firm on the question of North Sea oil against the Common Market demands? Will he confirm, for instance, that the Common Market countries have already got their hands on 10 per cent. of the oil in the event of another Middle East crisis, for example? Is it true that they are making further demands for more North Sea oil?
746 Does not this bear out the views of those of us who, like my right hon. Friend, warned the British people, at the time of the referendum, what some of the Common Marketeers were after?
§ Mr. BennWe have pressed very hard for further markets for steam coal. I gave the House the figures showing that Germany, France and Belgium subsidise their domestic coal industries to a very much greater degree than we do—50p per ton in Britain and £15.80 in Belgium.
The agreement that we have reached on oil supplies, in the event of an emergency, is in line with the International Energy Agency proposals, but I have made it clear that the development of sensible co-operation in the Community cannot mean that the Commission takes responsibility for energy policy in member States, including Britain.
§ Mr. EvansWill my right hon. Friend accept that some of us on the Labour Benches are seriously concerned at the attitude that the EEC Energy Ministers appear to be taking in relation to North Sea oil? Will he make it clear to them, when he next meets them, that in the event of a crisis in relation to oil supplies in the future they will be able to obtain supplies from the North Sea but that the price will be fixed by the British Government and that it will relate to world prices?
§ Mr. BennI have thought it sensible that we should agree to co-operative arrangements of a kind which would be neighbourly and good in the event of a supply crisis, and I gave evidence recently to this effect to the Select Committee on European Legislation, &c.
The price of oil will always be an international price. Indeed, North Sea oil attracts a premium price because it is a low sulphur oil. But I have made it clear, as I said a moment ago, that having co-operation in the EEC does not mean and cannot mean that the question of oil policy is transferred from this country to the Commission.
§ Mr. MacfarlaneAs the Secretary of State will be discussing EEC oil refining on 30th May, what line does he intend to take on this specific issue, in view of the importance that we place on this subject on the Opposition side? Will he come clean on this?
§ Mr. BennIt is not a matter of coming clean. I could hardly have been more explicit. The Comission's proposals have not been properly worked out, and I have had difficulty with Commissioner Brunner about the presence of British Government representatives when the British oil companies are met by the Commission. What I have said to him, and to everybody else with whom I have discussed it, is that there must be a wide-ranging political discussion between Ministers before any proposals are brought forward, and also that we attach great importance to the imports of refined products. Before any question of a Common Market discussion about refinery policy is developed, we must look at the import position, which is a factor in the situation.
§ Mr. William HamiltonDoes not the Secretary of State agree that it is in the long-term interests of the British coal industry that we have EEC agreement on a common coal policy, if not a common energy policy?
§ Mr. BennI agree with my hon. Friend, and I have urged most strongly—so far, I fear, without success—that markets should be found in EEC countries for coal which is produced in Britain, Germany, France and Belgium, which are the main coal producers. I wish that I could report more progress, but I have so far been unable to get an agreed proposal with that object in mind.
§ Mr. FormanWhen the right hon. Gentleman next meets the EEC Energy Ministers, will he do whatever is possible to give stronger British backing to the Commission's idea of Community investment in demonstration projects, particularly in such vital spheres as energy storage and heat pumps, which badly need developing quickly?
§ Mr. BennI think that if the hon. Gentleman looks again at the text of my principal answer he will find that demonstration and alternative technologies are included. I regard co-operation in projects of that kind as sensible, so long as they are under ministerial control so that we are able to supervise the development of these projects.
§ Mr. Tom KingIs it not clear from these exchanges that many hon. Members on both sides of the House see great 748 scope for co-operation with Europe and great benefits for Britain's energy industries, not least the coal industry, in closer co-operation in Europe? Is it not clear that there is a better chance of achieving that benefit if we seek to work with the Community and the Commission rather than sniping at them at every possible opportunity?
§ Mr. BennI am on the record many times, both in the Council of Ministers and in this House, as saying that I am in favour of co-operation. I think that co-operation is very beneficial. But that is different from saying that the form in which a Community energy policy should develop should be the transfer of responsibility for prime decisions from this country to the Commission.